Rama Sreenivasan is a co-founder and CEO at Blitzz, a live remote video support and inspection platform. Rama has led the company through its initial inception launch and subsequent growth to several million video support minutes per month. Major customers include BMW, Sealy, FedEx, and Rogers Telecommunications.

Before founding Blitzz in 2017, Rama spent several years working as a Scientist and Educator. His biggest joy comes from helping others solve their problems and he is passionate about finding effective ways to disseminate knowledge. Rama has a PhD and MS in Chemical Engineering from the University of Maryland College Park. He also did his Postdoctoral research at MIT in Cambridge, Boston.

Questions

• We always like to give them an opportunity to share in your own words, how you got to where you are today and why you ended up on this journey that you are on?
• So, could you share with our listeners a little bit about Blitzz? What does Blitzz do? Is Blitzz an acronym for something and may I ask? I'm not sure if you actually have a reason for it. But like, what inspired you to name the company Blitzz?
• The whole method of augmented reality enabled Smart Glasses that your company is using to enable hands free support, making it even easier to fix a car stereo appliance and more. Could you share a little bit about how that works? And what the process is? And how easy has it been for customers to transition using this new method of resolution?
• What are some trends that you see emerging in 2023 and beyond as it relates to technology, maybe one or two that you have observed, or you see that are emerging that you'd be willing to share with our audience?
• Could you also share with our audience what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business?
• Could you also share with us maybe one or two books that have had the biggest impact on you? It could be a book that you read very recently, or even one you read a very long time ago, but it really has had a great impact on your life, and you just believe it would be a good value to share with our audience.
• Could you also share with our listeners, maybe one or two things that you do personally to stay motivated every day, despite any challenges or adversities that you may face?
• Could you also share with our audience, what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about, either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people?
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge you’ll tend to revert to this quote, it kind of helps to get you back on track if for any reason you got derailed.

Highlights

Rama’s Journey

Me: So, even though we read the bio of our guests, the formal constructed background of where our guests history is, and how they got to where they are today, we always like to give them an opportunity to share in your own words, how you got to where you are today and why you ended up on this journey that you are on?

Rama stated that that's a pretty deep question. Start with a little bit about his background, he grew up in India and Indonesia, so two countries far away from here. And always been guided by a lot of the values from his parents, his dad was an engineer. He's retired right now and back in India, and his mom was a teacher as well. So, a lot of great values growing up and the fundamental thing was always trying to care for people, to help them. And his strength in math and science naturally led him to be an engineer, just like his dad.

And he always looks for opportunities to help people out with technology. And that's been his journey so far. But one thing led to another and here he is, running a software company, although, all his education was in chemical engineering, he did my Master's, his PhD post-doc, worked for a couple of semiconductor companies. But it was during that journey that he saw the need to help people with technology, as they struggled to troubleshoot equipment.

And so, the equipment came in through his engineering, the desire to help came through his value system. And then he started looking for technologies, he stumbled across technologies and he puts all these together and that's how Blitzz was born when he met his co-founder, KR, who used to work at Google before he joined him in starting Blitzz.

What Does Blitzz Do?

Me: So, could you share with our listeners a little bit about Blitzz? What does Blitzz do? Is Blitzz an acronym for something and may I ask? I'm not sure if you actually have a reason for it. But like, what inspired you to name the company Blitzz?

Rama shared that he’ll start with the name Blitzz. Blitzz with one Z actually means getting something done fast and efficiently. There's also another meaning, which refers to the Blitzkrieg during World War. But the second meaning is what they’re referring to here. The reason why they went with two Z's was honestly because one Z the website was already taken, so they went with two Z, that it was also a little cooler with two Z's. So, that's what Blitzz means to get something done fast and efficiently.

And regarding what it does, so they provide a way to have an app free live video call with anyone on the planet. As most people know today, in the video calls are pretty rapid, especially the pandemic got people started on video calling, especially in not just personally but at work as well. But many people don't know that it can be done without an app download.

And there are specific reasons why you want to do it without an app download especially when you're helping out a customer who's calling in into a contact centre, as you very well know, in customer service, you get a call in from someone that you've hardly met, you probably talking for the first time, they're probably frustrated with a piece of equipment, or perhaps their internet router, right? And to get on a video call with that person by asking them to download an app only frustrates them even more. So, there's got to be an easier way and that's what Blitzz is. He hopes that explained clearly what Blitzz is.

Smart Glasses – How it Works and the Process

Me: So, what intrigued me Rama, about interviewing you was this whole method of augmented reality enabled Smart Glasses that your company is using to enable hands free support, making it even easier to fix a car stereo appliance and more. So, I am all into customer experience, as you know, because that's the podcast Navigating the Customer Experience.

But I thought this was so cool that you could literally work with a client to not physically be in the same space but be using that technology to help them get their issue resolved. Could you share a little bit about how that works? And what the process is? And how easy has it been for customers to transition using this new method of resolution?

Rama shared that let him clarify that the Smart Glass hands free use case is, it's a different use case when it comes to someone, a consumer calling a contact centre. So, the Smart Glasses doesn't apply to that. That applies to technicians out in the field who are probably climbing up a windmill or cell phone tower or need their hands free to hold them to the study as they climb a piece of equipment or hold tools in their hands to follow instructions from a remote expert. So, that's the Smart Glass site.

But with consumers calling and say, if you've got a problem with your charger, as you charge your car in your ED vehicle, and you're not able to charge it, and you call the one 1800 number in the US, for example, that’s what do you typically call for customer support. Somebody at a contact centre picks up the call and today they want to help you out, the whole idea is to get you going on your way.

But today, most of them operate blind meaning that they can't see your problem. And when they operate blind, they tend to ask a bunch of questions, which is typically aggravating because you're thinking to yourself in front of the car, if only you could see this. Well, that's what Blitzz is. At that point in time, the way it works is as a contact centre agent, you would simply send them a text link, they would get it on their phone.

So, while they had the phone to the air, now they will get a link to look at the phone take it away from their ear and look at the screen, they would click on the link, immediately the back camera turns on and within a few seconds without an app download, the contact centre agent is actually looking at the charging port of the car. So, just cuts down all those extra questions and they could point to things, they can mark images up, they can communicate very clearly as if they were standing right next to the person in front of the car just through remote video.

Me: All right, amazing. And how do you find technology helping customers because a lot of organizations are using technology and I do believe that it really should be used to enhance the experience to make things frictionless or effortless for the customer. But I also believe that the human element is still very critical to the experience that the customer has, because technology can fail. And so, how do you think as we transition and we move forward because I'm sure there's more opportunities for technology to be infusioned into the experience that we have, that we blended in such a way that they complement each other rather than create further frustration and pain and discomfort for customers.

Rama shared that he couldn't have said it any better. But right on point. The blending of technology and the human empathy is very important and that's what they focus on when they take Blitzz to the contact centres. So, the ability to get the customer agent eyes on the problem brings in that technology piece. And because of being able to see the problem and connect with the consumer who's calling in a pain free, frictionless manner, like you just mentioned, make sure that they're in sync, they understand each other. And then as they see the problem, now they can solve it better and perhaps, most of the cases, what happens is they're able to solve the problem and avoid sending out a technician or avoid sending the product back to the manufacturer and saving a ton of trouble by just being able to see it and solve it within a few minutes.

Trends Emerging in 2023 as it Relates to Technology

Me: Have you seen, you're in the whole technology space, I would say trends that you see emerging in 2023 and beyond as it relates to technology, maybe one or two that you have observed, or you see that are emerging that you'd be willing to share with our audience?

Rama shared that yes, absolutely. There are lots of tools that are AI related, even in the case of video, as video’s getting more rampant in businesses, not just in personal communication, technologies like Blitzz come in almost every other month and capture more data and that data is fed into machine learning. And you can use that data very effectively to make downstream processes more efficient.

For example, even during a Blitzz call, how do we empower the agent to provide the right solution to the caller? Imagine the agent is able to immediately get access to an instruction manual based on the make and model of the equipment that the agent is supporting to troubleshoot, being able to pull that resolution step or the answer to the problem and giving the agent immediate access so that they can help the customer and have them go about their day, very, very quickly, is very powerful.

So, AI, augmented reality video are all the tools that are coming out with great efficiencies, much like 10 years ago, chat came about for customer experience. So, he would like to say that video is like the new chat, because now your eyes are on the problem.

App, Website or Tool that Rama Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business

When asked about an online resource that he can’t live without in his business, Rama shared that that's a good one. He’s been thinking about it for a bit. He would say, for him, the biggest value is just the cloud, even if he loses his laptop today, and there are lots of tools, but all those are cloud based tools. Even if his laptop is lost, he can go get another one and just seamlessly continue working as if nothing was missing. Because all the data, be it Gmail, be it tools, collaborative tools like Slack, or be it a CRM like HubSpot for his business. All these tools are on the cloud and he could just go get another laptop and continue working.

So, he would say, connectivity to the cloud is what he would need absolutely for the business. And they're all cloud-based tools important to migrate. It's really important to migrate to the cloud for businesses who are looking to the future because of the ease of working in the cloud is just incredible.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Rama

When asked about books that have had the biggest impact, Rama shared that the book that comes to him was The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment. That's more of a personal journey of being very mindfully aware of his strengths and weaknesses, it's kind of a metaphysical book, but it really made him aware of his own thinking process, and who he is as a person. And what does he want to do with his life.

There's also another book, he’s actually looking for around as he speaks. It’s a more recent book, it's by the author Dan Bapani and he has written a very good book on the ability to concentrate or the power of concentration. And he’s really enjoyed reading that book because it again, helps him be very mindfully aware of everything he does on a daily basis and be the best he can be. Both these things have really helped him be very present and live consciously.

How Rama Stay Motivated

When asked about how he stays motivated, Rama shared that he would say that would be definitely some yoga and meditation, that really puts him centre and it makes sure that things that really keep him keep me on track, he doesn't give up on those habits.

The funny thing about great habits is they get you to a spot where you're really enjoying life and that paradoxically also makes you not pursue those habits. So, you have to keep doing what you did to get there in order to be able to stay there. For him that is yoga and meditation.

What Rama is Really Excited About Now!

When asked about something that’s going on right now that he’s really excited about, Rama shared that he would say being a father of two small kids, 5 and 7. And running a company, trying to scale it. He’s always trying to find more balance and one of the other things he’s added in his life that he’s actually gotten back to because he couldn't do it when the kids were younger, was climbing. So, he loves climbing and what he’s really excited about is to get back to Yosemite, which is really close by in the valley and do some multi pitch climbing, which means climbing several pitches of rock. And that is pretty, pretty adventurous and exhilarating for him.

Me: Yes, that sounds very exciting and dangerous. But I suppose it depends on your perspective.

Rama shared that it's actually surprisingly, if you do it well, a joke to people, what typically is more dangerous is driving to Yosemite, rather than climbing because it's easier to get into trouble driving a car too fast than doing something very slow, like climbing, which is actually very controlled, provided you're very mindful.

Me: Yeah, and I do imagine there's some amount of skill involved in climbing as well.

Rama agreed, yes, there is but it does take some time and definitely getting trained with a good teacher is important, but again, what he’s realized is being very conscious about everything you do, being very hyper aware of what you do, really helps to be safe.

Where Can We Find Rama Online

LinkedIn – Rama Sreenivasan

Website – www.blitzz.com

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Rama Uses

When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Rama shared that he thinks of Bill Watterson, he's the author of Calvin and Hobbes, and he tries and bring in a little bit of humour in the face of adversity, and he said it through Calvin, his quote was, “God put me on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I’m so far behind that I am certain that I shall never die.”

Me: Okay. And would you like to expound on that for our audience and explain what that means?

Rama shared that he just thought it was really funny, he was kind of a self-deprecating humour. I'm here to accomplish a certain number of things. And we all get stuck in the rat race, right, trying to do so much but what when you stop back and think, right now, it's nice to laugh at yourself and say, “Hey, we're so far behind and all the list of things that I have to do that if I have to get all of them done, according to God, I should never die because I'm so far behind.”

Me: Oh, my goodness. Yes, it's quite comical. If only that were true, we all do have an expiry date, we just don't know when.

Rama agreed yes. But sometimes he feels at least his personality, he tends to take himself too seriously. So, he has to remind himself to also lighten up, let go and we're all here to help each other out and have a good time and take care of other people.

Me: Indeed. Well, thank you so much Rama for taking time out of your very busy schedule, to hop on our podcast, Navigating the Customer Experience and just share with us some of the trends that you see emerging in the technology space, why technology needs to still be fused in with the human interaction, the human experience, because at the end of the day, neither of them can function on their own and blended together that will definitely create a better experience for customers. And so, we appreciate you sharing all of the great nuggets and insights in our conversation today and so we just want to express our gratitude to you for that.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment by Eckhart Toole

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Amanda Ono has spent her career learning to maximize a company's most valuable investment - it's people. Boasting over 20 years of international experience in organizational development, HR consulting, and change management, she has implemented successful talent and leadership initiatives in six countries across four continents. You can currently find her at Resolver, a Kroll business and worldwide leader in defining risk intelligence, making her mark as both VP Customer Experience and VP People & Culture.

For most of her professional life, Amanda has been on a mission to understand what makes highly effective organizations tick. As an undergraduate in psychology, she saw pioneering research on the effects of unconscious bias and racism in resume screening up close. After graduating, she honed her craft by tackling training and organizational development at talent management firms across Canada. Soon her skills were in such demand that invitations to implement leadership programmes across the globe started to roll in - first in South Africa, followed by Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, and Singapore.

Since joining the Resolver team in 2016, she's only expanded on her record of success. Implementing processes and strategies that have enabled Resolver to scale by over 120%, expand into four countries and acquire three companies. Amanda's efforts have led to being recognized as one of Canada's great places to work six years in a row. Despite her accolades, Amanda is determined to continue engaging, accelerating and giving her colleagues at Resolver to deliver on the company's motto: Aim big, Be Great, and Be Loved by Customers.

Questions

• We've read, the formal background of who you are and where you are today. But we'd love for you to tell us the audience and myself, in your own words, a little bit about your journey and how it is that you got to where you work today.
• Could share with us maybe three to five things that you think is critical for leaders to embrace and practice on a daily basis in order to really have successful teams in an organization?
• Sometimes I find that HR in an organization, very few organizations where I've interacted with the team members of a company, and they feel so comfortable going to their Human Resource people, how could we change that, what are some ways that we could look for opportunities that HR can really play the role they're supposed to play?
• Could you also share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely cannot live without in your business?
• Could you also share with us what are some books that you have read that you believe have had the biggest impact with you? Maybe one or two you could share with us, could be that you read a very long time ago, or even one that you read recently, but it really has impacted you.
• Could you also share with us what's one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Could you share with us one or two benefits of HR or the people arm of the business actually using it technology to enhance the experience that employees have in the organization? How can technology help that?
• Where can they find you online?
• Do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or you get off track, and the quote kind of helps to get you back on track and kind of refocus you on what you're trying to achieve?

Highlights

Amanda’s Journey

Amanda stated that as you can hear, she’s had a nonlinear career path and she truly thinks that a lot of the opportunities she’s had both to lead teams and grow processes have been a result of that. So, she started, as Yanique said, actually went into her undergrad wanting to be a clinician and wanted to be a psychologist. And then she took abnormal psychology and didn't really know if that aligned with her long term, but taking organizational psychology really clicked, how do people, leaders and organizations work together to achieve results.

So, she’s had jobs in sales and marketing early in her career, she’s worked in both the private as well as the not for profit sector.

But the common thread that she really had across was how do you get the most out of people?

How do you maximize people's potential?

And so, it's been a great journey for her, she also had an opportunity to oversee the customer experience side of their business for about two and a half years and that includes both professional services support and learning operations.

And so, she thinks from the range of opportunities she’s had, and just a little bit on her mindset, where she’s pretty open, she thinks you focus on the skills and the work you want to do versus the title, she’s had an incredible journey thus far and look forward to continuing.

Key Best Practices for Leaders to Embrace and Practice to Grow and Develop a Successful Team

Me: Now, people are so important in a business and of course, our podcast is focused on navigating the customer experience. And we're all customers in everything that we do, I live by the motto that we're all here on this earth to serve each other, in everything we do we serve each other, in our communities, in our schools, with our children, at church, just everything you do, you're offering some level of service to someone.

And so, could you maybe share with us being that you have so much experience, developing people skills and talents and working on teams, where you've really been able to hone the best out of people.

What do you think are maybe I would say, especially seeing that you have so much experience working with leadership teams across different continents and cultures. Maybe you could share with us maybe three to five things that you think is critical for leaders to embrace and practice on a daily basis in order to really have successful teams in an organization?

Amanda stated that this is a this is a great question. And so, she thinks when you start as a leader, there's a peace around what are your values?

What do you care about as you grow your business or your organization?

And she thinks that becomes the first foundation in terms of how you're going to grow the team. And so, she thinks there's been this great movement over the past few years where people have really said, bring your authentic leadership style to work, she thinks it's an incredible movement, because you can't be everything to everyone.

And, and at the end of the day, you are who you are, and your company or your business is who you are, you're able to serve a certain customer base, you’re able to engage with your employee base a certain way.

And so, you really want to be rooted in that. She thinks employees are smart, they know that if they've been sold something in a recruiting process that's different when they show up to work, they might decide that they want to work somewhere else. So, she thinks as leaders, it's very important to be really strong in what you believe in, because there's a role for everyone and a company for everyone but being authentic and honest about it is so important. So, she always says start from that.

And certainly, it Resolver and as they continue to expand with Kroll, they have a deep value in the fact that employees are their customers, they're one of the customers that they serve, and she couldn't agree with Yanique more. Service is a key part of how leaders become really successful. And she always says if people in culture teams, they exist to serve the employee base. And so, they have to understand and learn from them and listen, and that's really why one of her values is that continued curiosity to understand how people operate and understand how she can continue to serve them. So, that she believes is really fundamental.

She would say the second thing for leaders, just to give a couple is to really think about who are you going to recruit into your organization?

So, once you know what your values are, how do you attract people that are going to align to those values?

Again, there's a company for everyone and having people you can decide that you want to build a company that is extremely high performance, extremely metric driven.

Well, there's people that are going to suit that environment that are much more competitive and much more driven towards those metrics and goals. So, making sure you have that alignment in the recruitment process is really critical.

She would say the third thing that made them really successful is building good onboarding programmes. So, she’s always found it curious that companies invest a ton in recruiting great people, and then sit them in front of a workstation or at their home office, and hopefully they have a laptop, hopefully they have credentials, hopefully they know what they're doing.

But setting people up for success early is really, really important. One thing they did at Resolver, is they really looked at how do you build an onboarding programme for a professional services team that was servicing their customer base, and they were able to get people successful and fully utilized at around four to five months versus around eight to nine months.

So, when you're able to really drill in on those programmes, this is sometimes where people think that “Oh, it's just an HR programme, or it's just something HR is asking me to do.” But when you do it well, you can really start to generate revenue. And so, she would say to leaders, have your values aligned, attract the right people, and then make sure you're onboarding them extremely well. Not only does it help with engagement at the employee level, because she genuinely thinks people want to get up and be successful, they don't want to get up and do a bad job.

So, it helps them be successful. But there's also real monetary gain that you can have when you build those programmes well. But she would say those are the three right off the hop that she thinks if leaders do really well, they're going to create a really strong service culture within their organization.

Opportunities for Human Resource to Play Their Role

Me: Great. Now, apart from leaders, like the CEO and the CFO and the CMO, and all of the top-level leaders in an organization, HR plays a very integral role in an organization. And sometimes, the name HR stands for Human Resources, which is the human, as the name suggests, the resources of the business that are human. Sometimes I find that HR in an organization, very few organizations where I've interacted with the team members of a company, and they feel so comfortable going to their Human Resource people, how could we change that, what are some ways that we could look for opportunities that HR can really play the role they're supposed to play?

I mean, apart from the standard things like benefits and ensuring that the organization is providing the teams with all of the resources that they need to get the job done, I think there's more that HR can play in terms of really supporting the team members. And sometimes when you talk to employees, they feel like HR is not for them. Do you get that feeling sometimes when you work with organizations or your interactions?

Amanda shared absolutely. This is such a great question. So, one thing they were really thoughtful about because when she joined the organization, she was the first hire to be within the function and she was really specific, because as a software company, very small software company, 90 people at the time when she joined, they're really afraid that HR was going to be seen as the police, the people that drove compliance, and you have to do this and don't step out a line.

There was a philosophical alignment that was really important to have with the leadership team. And honestly, even for her as a professional, she wants to join an organization where HR is seen as strategic versus administrative. And so, they were very thoughtful, they’re an early maturity team. And so, they called themselves the Talent Team, because they want to sit where be thought of as holding talent in the organization and enabling them to be successful.

They've since broadened and evolved, and now we use the term people and culture, which she thinks is a bigger reflection. But she thinks there's a philosophical approach that if an organization, where do you sit on the spectrum as HR as administrative versus strategic, and so if you're part of an organization where HR is seen as strategic, you're probably really empowered to build programmes that think of employees through an employee lifecycle, much like we think of a customer lifecycle, you acquire, you onboard, you retain, you land and expand, same thing as you think about the employee journey.

And so, she thinks if you're part of the organization where you're a little bit more on the strategic side, she thinks you're able to build some of those programmes, it's a sliding scale, she doesn't think there's any organization where you necessarily are sitting at hard either ends of that spectrum. Because certainly, there's a bunch of stuff in HR that is administrative, you've got to administer benefits, and you've got to make sure paperwork is done, that's super critical to a well-run people and culture organization, but it's just making sure that you work with leadership that truly sees people as the most significant investment they're going to make.

Most companies, if you're a knowledge-based organization, you probably spend between 60% to 80% of your operating budget on people. So, if you don't view it as strategic, you're really going to miss out on the opportunity to grow your business. And so, she thinks it's just how the organization thinks about it, she’s always believed that change and success is rooted in results.

So, she doesn't think you can necessarily change everything all at once. But if you change a really small thing early and you get success, the rest of the leaders in the organization will say, “Hey, maybe HR isn't as administrative as I thought it was, maybe it could do more. And maybe I should be relying on them to consult with the business.” So, she thinks it's got to kind of work both ways. There's a philosophical piece where you want your leadership to buy into, but it's also build programmes that are successful, because then you're going to be able to do a lot more.

App, Website or Tool that Amanda Absolutely Can’t Live Without in Her Business

When asked about online resource that she cannot live without in her business, Amanda shared that for her personally, it's Asana, which is a task management and project management tool. They are a relatively flat organization and they do a lot of cross collaboration. And so, being able to have teams from product, people in culture, engineering, marketing, product marketing see one view of how they have to collaborate and work together and commit to timelines she thinks is a total game changer in terms of how they’re able to manage accountability and push things forward.

She thinks most organizations don't necessarily have a ton of maturity when it comes to project management or programme management, she knows certainly, that was a huge skill set she learned in her time at Resolver. And so, she thinks any tool that makes that faster, especially in a distributed world, where you can’t always just rock up to someone's desk and say, “Oh, hey, did you finish that for me?” She thinks having that tool has really allowed for them to still deliver results and manage accountability and have a shared collaboration space. So, they’re big Asana users, and she’s a huge fan.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Amanda

When asked about books that have an impact, Amanda shared that she just reread John Kotter’s Leading Change, With a New Preface by the Author, because change and change leadership is a huge part of how leaders have to continue to push their organizations to be innovative and to continuously improve. And so, he has a breadth of research and a ton of really good nuggets in there, which she’s really appreciate it and she thinks are great for her as a leader.

And then she’s just a huge Brene’ Brown fan, Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transform the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead, so that was a little bit more on a personal level. But she thinks it was really informative for her. And part of the hard work of being a leader is looking inside, it's not always pretty in there but it's what's going to make you better to serve your employees and your customers is looking inside and asking yourself the hard questions. And so, those are ones that she often recommends to people, they're very top of topical for her and have really helped her advance and continue to challenge herself in the way she leads.

Me: Amazing. I love Brene’ Brown, I think her content is truly amazing. And she actually has a video that I found a couple of years ago on the difference between empathy and sympathy that she did at a TED talk, that I thought was really, really good, because I think a lot of people just really mix up the difference between being empathetic versus being sympathetic. And sometimes even the words that we use sends a signal of sympathy rather than one of empathy.

Amanda stated that she totally agrees. She thinks the work she's (Brené Brown) done on empathy, especially as it relates to the workplace, she's done an incredible job with that. For them, as Amanda has built various programmes on the employee side and on the customer side, she always thinks about ensuring that they’re rooted in empathy. Because at the end of the day, understanding each other and supporting each other to achieve things is really how they’re going to get results. So, she would say it's extremely central to how she’s had an opportunity to build things. And for many companies, empathy is at the root of how you are going to be in service of both your employees and your customers.

What Amanda is Really Excited About Now!

When asked about something that’s going on right now she is excited about, Amanda stated that that's a great question. So, recently Resolver was acquired in the spring of this year by Kroll, which is professional services company. And Resolver as well as several other technology companies are going to be the digital arm of Kroll, so Kroll Digital Services.

So, she was very fortunate to be given the opportunity to step in as the Chief Human Resource Officer for that role, again, going back to her point about the HR title, but that's how they level them so that's fine. So, as a business unit that's emerging, that's going to be digital first inside a company, she’s been given the very tall order to work with the team on how do we form a great culture within a digital first business unit?

What does that look like? How do you integrate these companies that have slightly different cultures, but still want to achieve great things through technology for a vast array of customers around the world?

So, that's a very recent shift. So, it's really exciting, lots of work ahead. But she realized in her career, she likes building stuff, she has a value around getting to build stuff and getting to test and pilot things and so that's the next chapter for her. So, she’s really excited for that.

Benefits of HR Using Technology to Enhance the Experience that Employees Have in the Organization

Me: So, when you were talking just now in terms of your new role and using technology, it piqued my interest to ask another question as it relates to human resources and technology. Maybe could you share with us one or two benefits of HR or the people arm of the business actually using technology to enhance the experience that employees have in the organization? How can technology help that?

Amanda shared that employees, especially over the past 10 to 15 years were such a tech first society, especially in North America, but globally, and so employees look at how they engage with their employers like they would as consumers. And so, they are, again our internal customers or consumers of processes and programmes that any organization is going to run.

And so, being tech-enabled is super important, making it easy for people to update their employment records and it's not a piece of paper, but they can do it on their mobile, she thinks being able to do things like a performance review process through a technology that is fast and easy to do.

And, again, potentially mobile enabled, super important. She thinks technology can help enable most things. She always say that technology doesn't solve the process, it just makes the process faster. So, what some people try to do is they say, “Okay, finally, I've got some budget, I'm going to put in a technology.” Which is great, it's wonderful, certainly she’s worked with various organizations that were super paper based, which becomes a barrier for employees to engage with things like performance conversations.

And so, again, the more tech enabled, you can make it the better. But the hard work is actually to step back and say, “What do we want this to look like? What are we trying to drive as the result, and then let's make sure the technology makes that true for us.”

 So, she thinks technology has a wonderful capability to drive efficiency, specially drives reporting, because it makes it really easy for all information to be in one spot. But the hard work of the leadership team is to step back and to say, what do we actually want to achieve? Let's draw out a process that makes sense and then let's enable it through technology.

She thinks sometimes people go the other way and she’s seen it the other way and it ends up being a major challenge. Because at the end of the day, the process has to be good, it has to be simple for employees. To Yanique’s point earlier about employees being customers, we as a society now really have a high bar for things being easy, for it being a few clicks, for it being enabled by technology.

And so, if organizations are thinking about their employee base is not thinking differently when it comes to HR tech and how they interface with HR tech, they're probably going to have people that kind of moan and groan about the stuff they have to do on paper or an excel spreadsheet or anything like that. So, huge fan, think there's lots of work to be done to make it really effective. But she thinks certainly the reality of a pandemic and being most companies now having some form of distributed work team makes it doubly important to what it was three years ago. But that's definitely a frontier for people to make sure that they're crossing to ensure they're serving their employee base.

Me: Yeah. Wow. You know, you said three years ago, totally unrelated to what you're talking about and I just realized, wow, January, February makes it three years since we've been in this pandemic.

Amanda shared that it’s wild and honestly, she thinks she’s an optimist by design and one of the best outcomes from COVID for employees specifically and employers is twofold. One, it made us totally rethink if employees need to be in the office full time. And there's some jobs where that's still true. But there's many companies, Resolver, and Kroll Digital included, where you can be hybrid. And so, she thinks shifting that narrative was as true, we mark the three-year anniversary of that win for employees.

And the second thing is people became a lot more open about talking about mental health and the impacts of mental health because the wall between work and home was just shattered for most of us. And so, she’s certainly within their employee base notice a difference in the courage to have those conversations and to bring more vulnerability to work. She’s seen that shift and it's a positive one because it allows them to understand that what people are going through and how they might support them moving forward.

So, three years in, lots of stuff that she’s sure we'd like to go back in time on. We're here or what we have. And she certainly thinks from an employee perspective, there's been some great wins and she hopes now what most companies are able to do is to say, “Okay, let's take what we've learned, and let's make the offering and how we serve our customer or employee base even better.”

Where Can We Find Amanda Online

LinkedIn – Amanda Ono

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Amanda Uses

When asked about quote or saying that she tends to revert to, Amanda stated that she thinks this one needs to get printed on a T-shirt for her. Her granny told me when she was little, and it’s constant on repeat for her, especially during COVID. But she thinks as you continue to evolve, “It's just controls what you can control.”

There's so many things that are dependent and you can't really influence but if you really narrow focus on the things that you can move, even on days where you're not feeling the best, you have control to go out and get some fresh air and go for a walk and get some perspective, you have control of engaging with very kind relationships with people on your team, you have control to just kind of laugh off maybe that colleague that always is a little bit harsh on a call.

So, that's her t-shirt, stated that probably she should wear it daily, maybe actually next time she pops onto a Zoom call with her team, she should have it on a t-shirt, they’ll probably like that. But that's definitely hers, control what you can control.

Me: Control what you can control. Love it. Well, thank you so much, Amanda for hopping on to our podcast and Navigating the Customer Experience, sharing all of these great insights and nuggets as it relates to people and culture, building strong teams, the importance of leadership and some of the key things that leaders need to do in order to build successful teams and great cultures. And just sharing with us, based on your journey, your experiences that you've had, and allowing our listeners to really tap into what are some ways that they can explore to really navigate and create great success. We're embarking on a new calendar year, lots of great opportunities that we may not have been able to tap into in 2022 and those doors may still be open in 2023. So, we really appreciate you sharing this great content with us today.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• Leading Change, With a New Preface by the Author by John Kotter
• Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transform the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead by Brene’ Brown

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Andrew Wolgemuth founded Wove to recreate the way couples buy engagement rings in a highly traditional and outdated industry. Andrew grew up in an entrepreneurial environment working at his parents jewellery company in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. After attending West Point and serving as a Platoon Leader in the Army’s 75th Ranger Regiment, he attended Stanford's GSB’s Ignite Entrepreneurship Programme where the idea for Wove was born.

Questions

• Could you share with our listeners a little bit about your journey, at least your journey into entrepreneurship, how did you get to where you are today? And what kind of propelled you into that space?
• Could you tell us a little bit about your ecommerce company? What's the name of the company?
• As a business owner, you're operating in the ecommerce space and I'm sure a lot has changed since COVID. What have been some of your key learning opportunities that you've been able to capitalize on? As you know, we went through a pandemic, and now we're emerging out of a pandemic, how have you been able to still satisfy clients, meet their demands despite all of what was happening globally?
• What are maybe one or two key things that as a designer communicates with the client, they try to focus on to ensure that those things are manifested into the product to make people feel like they're a part of what you're purchasing.
• How hard is it to kind of lead a remote base team and leverage their expertise seeing that you're not all in the same space?
• And do you find that the customer experience is better because you're able to kind of navigate that journey, control that journey as much as possible, you have more control over the things that may impact your customer in a positive or a negative way.
• Could you share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business?
• Could you share with us maybe one or two books that you've read, either recently or in the past that have had a great impact on you.
• Could you also share with us what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Do you have a quote or saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you will tend to revert to this quote, it kind of helps to get you back on track if for any reason you got derailed?

Highlights

Andrew’s Journey

Andrew shared that entrepreneurship actually started for him in his childhood. Both of his parents were young entrepreneurs, they started a family jewellery company when he was just a baby. And so, much of his childhood was spent watching his parents start a business. And he thinks many of the lessons that he learned from watching his parents, both himself and his siblings took with them as they entered into the real world.

About Andrew’s Ecommerce Company Wove

Andrew shared that their company is called Wove. They’re www.wovemade.com/. And what they specialize in is custom engagement rings and wedding bands. So, essentially, the way that their process works, they match their clients with one of their in house jewellery designers, after they submit a short quiz on their website, that design consultation allows the client to work with a designer to discover their preferences, design an engagement ring or wedding band. And once they're satisfied with the design, they send them an exact replica of that ring that they can try on at home.

And really what this allows the client to do is try on a realistic version of their ring, test drive it at home, show friends and family and ensure that when you go to buy the final ring that you're getting exactly what you're looking for. So, it kind of acts as a way of allowing the client to buy with full confidence that what they're getting is actually the ring that they want to wear for the rest of their life.

Me: That's very cool. So, your niche is specifically in the marriage line.

Andrew shared that right now, they are focused specifically on bridal jewellery, yes. But they are excited to be launching their own jewellery lines, things other than engagement rings and wedding bands here before the end of this year. So, they’re in the process of designing those pieces right now, they're going through the prototyping phase, and very soon they’ll also have jewellery on their site.

Satisfying and Meeting Clients Demands Despite What is Happening Globally

Me: Now, could you share with our listeners, Andrew, as a business owner, you're operating in the eCommerce space and I'm sure a lot has changed since COVID.

What have been some of your key learning opportunities that you've been able to capitalize on? As you know, we went through a pandemic, and now we're emerging out of a pandemic, how have you been able to still satisfy clients, meet their demands despite all of what was happening globally?

Andrew stated that it's interesting, their business was very much grown out of the pandemic. Neither Brian, his co-founder nor himself really anticipated on having a career in the jewellery industry, this kind of happened by accident.

And so, it’s a great question to ask, they started working actually with deployed service members back in 2020 when the pandemic was just starting. And those service members wanted a way to design and buy an engagement ring from overseas. And that way when they got back, they could propose but no one really wanted to take the chances of buying an engagement ring online and shipping it to a deployment address in the Middle East.

And so, they started sending replicas to service members while they were deployed. And so, it was interesting as they got home, and the pandemic was still going on and many of the jewellery stores were closed, many of their friends and family started asking for the same bespoke custom design and replica service. And really, that's how they got started, they recognized that there was a need for what they were building and people enjoyed buying an engagement ring the Wove way, better than the next best alternative.

So, the pandemic really is what allowed them to gain the early traction that enabled them to raise the funding that they raised and grow their team. But he thinks if there's one fundamental lesson that they continue to lean on is, test early and often and do it as inexpensively as possible. They’ve changed our product and process so many times over the last two years, and really allowing them doing those things early on, allow you to build the shiny, expensive product later after you have full proof that it's exactly what you need to be building.

Key Things As a Designer Communicates with the Client to Ensure They are a Part of What They are Purchasing

Me: So, your organization also focuses heavily on personalization. And we found, just through, of course, research and data that we get from like Forrester and some of top leading market research entities, that personalization is one of the things that helps to differentiate you in this world, regardless of the industry that you're in. Because clearly if the service is personalized, then it's almost like you're getting something that's not generic, and it's specific to you.

And I heard that in when you're explaining how it is that your business operates, the fact that the designer does custom made designs, sends you a replica of it, you can literally walk with a replication of it before you actually purchase the final product.

What are some of the things that you focus on in the personalization process? What are maybe one or two key things that as the designer communicates with the client, they try to focus on to ensure that those things are manifested into the product to make people feel like they're a part of what you're purchasing?

Andrew stated that at the most fundamental level, he would just say listening, and if that sounds very, very simple. One of the first clients that they ever worked with, he remembers very distinctly getting on the follow up design consultation after the couple had received their replica ring. And immediately one of the partners started to tear up and his initial thought was, “Oh, no, what happened, we must have messed up the replica ring.” And what she said was so poignant to him, she said, “I feel so heard, you incorporated everything that I wanted into the ring, into this design.”

And so, that was really moving for them and it's the way that they train their designers today is that listening to the client is one of the most important things that you can do. And not just listening, but actively listening, taking notes and ensuring that the design preferences they have are incorporated into the design.

But even taking that a step further, one of the things that they do is before a client ever gets on a design consultation is that they have them fill out a style quiz, which allows them to be matched based on their style preferences with one of their in-house designers. So, before they ever get on a call, they are doing what they can to match them with someone that they think they'll be compatible with from a style and design perspective. And that has made their process run incredibly smoothly. And allowed them to really meet the client where they're at.

Me: Brilliant, I love that. Absolutely love that. All right, so you're leading, how many designers would you say your organization has?

Andrew shared that a few of them are full time and a few are contract but at any one given moment in time right now they have about 8 different designers that they’ve worked with. So, not a ton, but that's enough to really cover the span of different styles for engagement rings, and so that's about the number that they’re utilizing today.

Me: Okay. And these persons are pretty much remote based.

Andrew agreed, they are. And one of the things that's great about their model is that jewellery designers are surprisingly underpaid in the industry. And so, what they’ve been able to do is essentially create a job description that is exactly what any jewellery designer would want to be doing, which is designing jewellery, working with clients and ultimately seeing their pieces come to life.

A lot of jewellery designers that work for top brands will work in a tiny design office in a crammed New York City office building, they never get to meet the client, and oftentimes their piece is never built. And so, what they able to do is pay their designers more than their competitors in the industry and give them a job that's much more satisfying.

And so, because of that, they’ve been able to attract some of the top designers from across the industry, from major brands that you would recognize. And so, that's been really exciting for them to be able to attract some of the top talent for what they’re building.

Leading a Remote Based Team and Leverage Their Expertise

Me: Amazing. So, how hard is it to kind of lead a remote based team and leverage their expertise seeing that you're not all in the same space? I know you still have a lot of leaders globally who believe that because we basically emerged out of the pandemic, they want everybody to come back face to face. But I gather that based on your business model, this has been how you've operated from inception.

Andrew shared that it is about 50% of their company is remote and 50% is in person. So, they do have an office in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, that office contains all of their manufacturers, a lot of their content creators and the operations people in the company. But our remote team consists of all of our designers, marketers, web developers, really anyone that doesn't have to be in person.

And so, it's fascinating. He and Brian, his co-founder both came from the Army, which is obviously very much an in-person organization. But he thinks a lot of the leadership lessons and management principles are the same. They do the best that they can to care for their employees, whether you're remote or in person have contact daily, ensure that people's professional and personal needs are being satisfied. So, they love the model that they have, they make an effort to see even their remote employees in person at least once every two months, whether it's going and visiting them or doing an off-site. But for them, that model has worked really well, and it's given them a lot of flexibility.

Me: Brilliant. Now, just to also confirm you handle everything for the consumer from start to finish. So, is there any third party like vendor that you would engage to, let's say, do the delivery of the product, or does your company handle from start to finish so that way you're controlling all of the touch points that your client will have with you.

Andrew shared that they handle just about everything start to finish. And so, the things that they handle are the design of the ring, they do all the manufacturing, all of their jewellery is made from start to finish in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. And because of that, they’re able to produce a really high-end product and they’re able to produce it very quickly. They produce rings in about 5 to 7 days, which for custom is about 6 times the national average for custom jewellery.

And so, they’re really proud of that, the only vendors that they work with are diamond suppliers. They don't carry any of their own diamond inventory, they work with different diamond suppliers from top diamond sources in the US, all of their diamonds are ethically sourced, they pass the Kimberley Process, which ensures they're conflict free. And they also do a lot of work with lab grown diamonds as well. But really the diamond sourcing is done in house, but they purchase diamonds from outside vendors. And that's really the only thing that they do with a third party.

Navigating the Journey – Having Control Over Things That May Impact Customers in a Positive or a Negative Way

Me: Amazing. And do you find that the customer experience is better because you're able to kind of navigate that journey, control that journey as much as possible, you have more control over the things that may impact your customer in a positive or a negative way.

Andrew stated absolutely. And custom is hard, it's a hard thing to do at scale. He thinks the reason that they’ve been able to do it so successfully, is because they spent a lot of time investing in systems that allow the customization to occur in a way that's organized, they don't lose track of details and they have a method to how they produce.

But ultimately, he thinks it gives the consumer a one of a kind experiences that allows them to build something completely custom, they're not going to see their friend wearing the same ring that they have on. Everything is one of a kind, they only build their rings once for the customer experience. And as far as diamonds go, if you bought a diamond online through Blue Nile or Brilliant Earth, you're going to get to a diamond page and there are literally 10s of 1000s of diamonds on the page. If you don't have an education in diamonds, it can be extremely daunting trying to figure out which one is the right one.

And so, their geologists and designers walk their clients through every step of the process, will help you pick a diamond. So, yes, it is absolutely a heavy investment, but he thinks the customer experience is truly one of a kind and it gives their clients tremendous confidence that what they're getting is the ring that they want to be wearing the rest of their life. So, they’re really proud of what they’ve built. But obviously he’s a little bit biased, but he thinks their experience is certainly the best when it comes to customer engagement rings.

App, Website or Tool that Andrew Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business

When asked about online resources that he cannot live without in his business, Andrew shared that they use HubSpot in a lot of different ways. HubSpot is their primary CRM, they use it for tracking their sales funnel, where their rings are out in production. They use it for automated emails and text and that engine has been tremendously powerful for their business and also gives them a ton of customization.

They knew that when they built out their CRM that they weren't going to be able to use a plug and play CRM template. And so, HubSpot gave them the flexibility to essentially build exactly what they needed on their platform.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Andrew

When asked about books that have had a great impact, Andrew shared that the most recent book that he’s read is Amazon's Working Backwards: Insights, Stories, and Secrets from Inside Amazon by Colin Bryar. He loves this book, what the book talks about is how Amazon goes about proposing products and how they go about designing products that they believe their customers will one, be excited about and two, that will be functional for them. And so, that's been a book that's really been useful for him when he thinks about how they’re designing user experiences or providing tools to their clients that allow them to solve the problems that they face when buying an engagement ring. That is a great book.

The other book that he really liked, it's not really as much business related, but it's very team related is Team of Teams: New Rules of Engagement for a Complex World by General Stanley McChrystal. Now, that takes him back to his Army days, but it's a book that he continuously goes back to because it talks about how teams function successfully. And he thinks it has a lot of good lessons that are good reminders for any type of organization.

What Andrew is Really Excited About Now!

When asked about something that’s going on that he’s really excited about, Andrew shared that one thing that they’re very excited about that they are launching next week on their Wove website is they are launching the ability for clients to order replicas of Wove pre-designed rings. And so really, the difference of what that is compared to what they offer today is, there are certain clients that may not need the full custom experience, but still want to be able to try the ring on before they buy it.

And so, their designers from across their company put together what they believe are the top rings that represent both Wove as well as what consumers are looking for. And clients can either buy that ring right off the site, or they can order for free, an exact and realistic replica of that design that they can try on at home before making the big decision. And so, he’s really excited to get that product live, it’s going live next week, it'll be on www.wovemade.com. So yeah, check it out.

Where Can We Find Andrew Online

Website – www.wovemade.com

Instagram - @wove_made

Facebook - @wovemade

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Andrew Uses

When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to during times of adversity or challenge, Andrew stated yes, absolutely. A quote that he heard recently from one of his mentors that he really likes is that, “Failure is rarely fatal, and success is never permanent or lasting.”

And that's a quote that her refers back to constantly. As a founder, there are often times where you can feel defeated, things won't be going the way that you anticipate. And so, being able to take a step back and look at the big picture and rely on a quote like that is reassuring. So, that's one of his favorites.

Me: Amazing. Well, thank you so much Andrew for taking time out of your day, to hop on our podcast Navigating the Customer Experience. And just share some of these great insights as it relates to the journey of your business, your own personal journey, the importance of customization, the importance of leading a team that is even though remote based, that you're able to leverage their expertise in the highest possible way. And of course, controlling that journey of your customers by ensuring that you're giving and meeting those needs, those needs that are so specific to each individual in a way that will have them remember you for the rest of their lives. So, thank you so much for that.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• Working Backwards: Insights, Stories, and Secrets from Inside Amazon by Colin Bryar
• Teams of Teams: New Rules of Engagement for a Complex World by General Stanley McChrystal

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Justin Zalewski is the Director of Product Design and Strategy at Studio Science. He leads a team of talented product designers and works with clients to solve business problems through design. He and his team are experts in rapid prototyping and running experiments to more quickly learn from and deliver value to customers.

He has led projects with clients ranging from market-leading tech companies to Fortune 500 brands. Some of his clients include Angi, Genesys, Simon, Stack Overflow, and Cummins.

Questions

• Now, could you share with us, in your own words, just a little bit about your journey, how you got to where you are today?
• So, customer and product design. Now, tell us a little bit about Studio Science. What is Studio Science and what does Studio Science do?
• So, maybe could you share with me one or two trends that you've seen in the customer experience space that you think is critical for a business to constantly be looking at to ensure that they are keeping current with the needs of their customer?
• Why do you think it's important for not only the customer experience, but the employee experience to ensure that your alignment in terms of needs is not just on the CX end but it's also on the EX end and what does that look like in terms of it being beneficial to both?
• Now, could you also share with us what is the one online resource, tool, website, or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business?
• Could you also share with us what's one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• We do have a lot of persons that listen to this podcast, who are business owners, as well as managers and they believe that their companies have great products and services, but from time to time, they do lack constantly motivated human capital, so the people are not as motivated. If you're sitting across the table from one of those persons today, what's the one piece of advice that you'd give them to increase or improve their motivation and have a successful business?
• Could you also share with us Justin, our listeners would have tapped into this episode, they would like to connect with you. And so, they would like to know where can they find you online?
• So, before we wrap our episodes up, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote, it kind of helps to get you back on track or get you refocused if for any reason you got derailed.

Highlights

Justin’s Journey

Justin shared that he started in the world of design and the way he started was a little more in the world of graphic design. And that led him into just kind of a natural curiosity into the more technical side of things. And so, he started to kind of branching out from just the visual design of things in visual communication into building things and figuring out how things work. So, getting into code, building websites, building apps. And that led him into product design.

So, figuring out what is the UX, the user experience of making sure that these kinds of things are intuitive, easy to use, fun to use, and really meeting customer needs. And that caused him to broaden his lens, especially the last 10 years and his time at Studio Science to broaden his lens, and especially adapt a service design mindset. So, looking across the whole customer journey from everything they're doing, with a digital product, outside of a digital product, their in-person interactions, the way that the organization delivers a service to a customer.

And one of the things that he’s been really passionate about lately and getting really excited about is how they use their design skill set and looking through the business world with that lens, to bring people together, bring siloed disparate departments together in pursuit of that common goal. Because really, everybody wants to serve the customer, we're all just coming at it from different angles. And so, where he’s at today, is being able to use that design skill set, not just for improving visual design or UX, but actually to bring people together to create a better service and a better experience for customers.

What is Studio Science and What Does Studio Science Do?

Justin shared that Studio Science is a design and innovation firm. And their purpose is to help businesses designed with people as opposed to for people. So, they saw this in a variety of ways but if he could sum it up, it comes down to this, customer experience depends on meeting people's needs and people's needs are constantly changing. So, businesses have to constantly change too. And they know that this is hard. So, where they come in is they help businesses, 1) Understand what their customers need. And then 2) Deliver solutions to meet those needs. Obviously, that's super vague.

So, to get more specific, they do a lot of work with large enterprise companies. And they're in a lot of cases in a place where they've enjoyed long term success but what got them here won't get them to that next stage.

So, more often than not, the way these large companies are set up, doesn't allow them to innovate well, because they're not built to move quickly. There’re all kinds of bureaucratic structure that's in place, a lot of times for understandable reasons, but it ends up hindering this kind of evolution that's needed to meet customer needs.

So, when they speak with people that are responsible for advancing customer experience in organization like this, a lot of times they're frustrated, sometimes even feeling hopeless, because they've been banging their head against the wall trying to make progress in their organization.

But that's where they can come in, they can act as their modern design team from the outside, when it's not possible to operate that way from the inside. So, they can build an understanding of customer needs, match that up with business goals and then mentioned, they are big fans of rapid prototyping, they prototype those solutions so you can learn really quickly without having to build and roll out a full solution. They're building to learn rather than building just to launch things and that's the best way to align what a business is offering to what customers actually need.

Me: So, Studio Science is on to some great stuff there.

Trends in the Customer Experience Space for Businesses to Look at to Keep Up with the Needs of Their Customers

Me: Now, what has been your experience? I noticed you mentioned in ensuring that you deliver a great experience to your customers, because businesses are continually changing, you need to continually change or customers are continually changing, rather, you need to continually change. So, maybe could you share with me one or two trends that you've seen in the customer experience space that you think is critical for a business to constantly be looking at to ensure that they are keeping current with the needs of their customers?

Justin stated that he thinks it all comes down to measuring the right kinds of things. And what is challenging and what we see a lot of organizations struggling with, is that the things that are easiest to measure, those quantitative kinds of things where if you've got a digital product or website, you can throw up Google Analytics or your platform of choice super quickly and you can measure all kinds of all kinds of the what's, how many people are visiting, how many people are doing this kind of thing within their app, and that's all valuable. But to really get to the deeper levels of evaluating customer experience and figuring out are we headed in the right direction? Are we actually solving a need for our customers?

You got to dig into the qualitative side of it as well, the why behind it all to figure out like alright, we can see that this thing is happening, our customers are downloading our product or they're signing up for this offering, they're buying these things on our ecommerce store. But why are they or aren't they doing this, this thing we thought would be a big hit.

And so, that's where he thinks digging into just making sure that you're tied in with your customers, via any variety of methods for qualitative research can be that interviews, workshops, developing relationships like having a customer advisory board, where you've got those close relationships with customers, where you can just go and talk to people really quickly where there's not a chance for that barrier and that space to develop between a business and their customers, because that's what leads to misalignment and shipping things that don't actually fit what the customer needs.

The Alignment of Needs for Both Customer Experience and Employee Experience

Me: Brilliant. Now, in addition to what you've shared, could you also share with us why do you think it's important for not only the customer experience, but the employee experience to ensure that your alignment in terms of needs is not just on the CX end but it's also on the EX end and what does that look like in terms of it being beneficial to both?

Justin stated that they are great questions, because there's no way to separate the customer experience from the employee experience, the employees are what makes it possible to actually deliver a customer experience, and especially a good customer experience. And there's also, and he’s sure we've all seen these kinds of things happening or read about it in the news with Amazon or otherwise, it's also very possible for an organization to deliver a great customer experience at the expense of the employee experience, and how that's not sustainable and it allows all these problems to grow and fester.

And so, it's really impossible to separate the two. And so, what he advocates for and what Studio Science advocates for is actually bringing the two together and there's a variety of different ways to do this.

But they found the best way is through a service design approach. And so, there's a lot of different aspects to that but one example and one really helpful tool that's part of a service design approach is to develop a service blueprint.

So, you might be familiar with a customer journey map or you're mapping out here's what a customer is experiencing at different stages of their journey with us. Think of a service blueprint as adding on another layer to that of not just what is the customer experiencing, but what is the business doing to enable that experience. What are our people, what is our staff doing? What kinds of technology do we have in place that is enabling that experience?

And especially mapping it out of that high level allows them to pinpoint like what are the points of friction and why?

Like what's happening. But also, it's a great tool to bring people together and figure out, like we can see there's an issue here, is that a technology problem? Is that something where a department is just totally overwhelmed and overloaded, and we haven't really developed an understanding about that today. And then how can we solve that together rather than just trying to brute force a better experience in a way that's just not going to be feasible because people can only do so much.

App, Website or Tool that Justin Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business

When asked about online resources that he cannot live without in his business, Justin shared that for him, it is Slack. And so, especially in this remote collaborative world, they’ve been on Slack for several years, even before the pandemic where they really leaned into remote work, and he knows other folks are on different systems. Microsoft Teams has gained a lot of ground, he’s a big Slack fan. He thinks it's a way to cut down on email, really emphasize the quick kind of asynchronous collaboration that just helps a business run and helps bring people together.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Justin

When asked about books that have had an impact, Justin stated that it's so hard to narrow down to a couple but the ones that come to mind most readily are one he read a while back is a book called Thinking, Fast and Slow, his name is Daniel Kahneman, behavioral economics that wrote about basically like two systems of thinking like our fast thinking brains and our slow thinking brains and all kinds of like the biases that develop because of how we're built to think. And it just has all these implications that has really changed the way he thinks about a lot of his own interactions in his own life. But also, when he tries to empathize and understand like how other partners and colleagues in business are looking at things or how their customers are perceiving a solution or their experience, it's been really eye opening.

The other he would say is Inspired: How to Create Tech Products Customers Love by Marty Cagan. It's a book really all about product management but it's, he'd say it opens up some lines of thinking even outside of product management, really just about how to rapidly iterate, really learn quickly from customers, and all the different ways you can test solutions in a really lean, cheap way without needing to invest a lot of money into it.

What Justin is Really Excited About Now!

When asked about what’s something that is going in right now that he’s really excited about, Justin stated that it’s a great question. So, he’s really excited for himself and then also to share this with his team and try to foster this kind of mindset of making space. And it seems like it's only snowballing and getting more common these days that the people are just very scattered, torn in a lot of different directions.

And so, bringing focus and creating space to be focused on the highest priority things he thinks is a really valuable thing, he won't say it's undervalued, because there are a lot of people that are beginning to emphasize that more and more. But it's increasingly challenging in the world, just because there are so many distractions, so many things calling for our attention. And so, finding ways to focus, to prioritize and to really be mindful about what we're spending time on, is something he’s been really focusing on lately for himself, but also trying to bring that to those around him and his team.

Advice for Business Owners and Managers who Lack Constantly Motivated Human Capital

Me: Now, we do have a lot of persons that listen to this podcast, who are business owners, as well as managers and they believe that their companies have great products and services, but from time to time, they do lack constantly motivated human capital, so the people are not as motivated. If you were sitting across the table from one of those persons today, what's the one piece of advice that you'd give them to increase or improve their motivation and have a successful business?

When asked about one piece of advice he would give to business owners and managers to increase or improve motivation and have a successful business, Justin stated that he’s sure these folks have heard a lot of things about making sure people have the motivation from a strong mission and vision for a company and that is all really critical and it's hard to do much without that. But if he can add something new that they might not have heard as much about before, it's the concept of involving the employees and even partners, anybody that you're working with, to deliver value to your customers. Involving them in the process of co-creating solutions, rather than dictating solutions and process to them.

And so, when you're thinking about, “Hey, like, we're going to develop this new product, we're going to sell it this way, we're going to deliver it to customers this way.” Rather than it being entirely a top down approach, this is strongly urge but forced upon the employees. He thinks you'd be surprised how powerful it is to actually involve the employees and the team in coming up with the solution.

And so, some of the ways that they do that are actually just starting by talking with employees, but also getting their input, running workshops like, “Here's the problem that we're trying to solve. We know that you live in this world every day, like what do you see, what's your perspective?

And how can we actually like make this kind of outcome for the business?”

And he thinks bringing those perspectives together, one it is proven to actually generate better solutions and more feasible solutions because it comes from the people that actually be carrying out work. But two, it gets people involved and gets their buy in on the solution and helps them feel more involved rather than a cog in the machine.

Me: Okay. Awesome. So, a high level of inclusivity so they feel like they're a part of where the company is going, the decisions that are made and of course, you get greater buy in, which means you get, hopefully increased motivation, and people feel like they're a part of something bigger than just the operational stuff that they do every day.

Where Can We Find Justin Online

LinkedIn – Justin Zalewski

Website – www.justinzalewski.com

Website – www.studioscience.com

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Justin Uses

When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Justin shared that he’s bad at quotes, but he’ll give kind of the sentiment behind the idea. And he’s sure there are folks that have said it better.

But it comes down to like, there's only so much you can do at one time. He will attempt to quote something he read from recently where someone that took a very sensible approach to life of not chasing after, always the next thing always bigger and better.

But realizing that all you can do is worry about like, “What am I going to do today to make the most out of today, rather than worry so much about the next week, next month, next year, which I really have little control over.”

So, he thinks taking a reasonable perspective of here are the things that I can control and influence today and here's the things that I can't, and I can just do my best to be prepared for when those kinds of things do come up, really helps him to just take a little bit of the pressure off in moments of stress and refocus himself to what's really important.

Me: So, just wanted to tell you, thank you so much for hopping on to our podcast, Navigating the Customer Experience and sharing some of these great insights as it relates to customer experience design, as well as ensuring that as an organisation, you look to not just satisfy the needs of your customers, but you also your employee needs. And the value that you brought to both myself and our listeners, I think is really great at a time that people are really looking at, how are they going to position themselves for 2023 as we exit one calendar year and jump into the next? And what are some areas that really need to be given that high level, super focus to ensure that they can stay on top of their game in their industry and really give their customers what they're looking for both on an internal and an external level. So, thank you so much.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman
• Inspired: How to Create Tech Products Customers Love by Marty Cagan

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Brad Sugars is internationally known as one of the most influential entrepreneurs. Brad is a best-selling author, keynote speaker and the number one business coach in the world. Over the course of his 30 year career as an entrepreneur, Brad has become the CEO of 9 plus companies and is the owner of the multimillion dollar franchise Action Coach. As a husband and father of 5, Brad is equally as passionate about his family as he is about business, that's why Brad is a strong advocate for building a business that works without you so you can spend more time doing what really matters to you.

Over the years of starting, scaling and selling many businesses, Brad has earned his fair share of scars. Being an entrepreneur is not an easy road but if you can learn from those who have gone before you, it becomes a lot easier than going at it alone. That's why Brad has created 90 days to revolutionize your life, it's 30 minutes a day for 90 days teaching you his 30 years experience on investing, business and life.

Questions

• Could you share a little bit about how you got to where you are today?
• In your bio, it mentioned that at the end of the day, you want to be working in a business that can work without you. Like so many people don't understand that concept. Could you explain what that means?
• And so, maybe could you share with us, let's say 3 to 4 success principles, or just things that will help to make you be more successful as a business owner or an entrepreneur.
• Could you share with us I would say maybe, let's move it up to five traits that a leader needs to really grow and develop their people.
• Where do you get to that point where you're starting to attract really quality people? Is it because of the energy that you're giving out, your leadership style, what makes the right people or attracts the right people to come to you?
• What's your views on marketing? Is it something that still needs to be occurring to keep present in the customers mind? And if so, based on the fact that marketing has changed so much I would say in the last 10 to 20 years as you've mentioned, which platforms do you focus your marketing on?
• Could you share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely cannot live without in your business?
• Could you maybe pick one or two that have had a great impact on you over your lifetime? It could be a book you read recently, or even one that you read a very long time ago.
• What has been your experience, I would say, let's narrow it down to the last one to two years of customer experience. And I know it's a very general and a wide question, but we just want to get an idea of how your experiences has been across different industries, like travelling to a hotel, or airline or restaurant, or even just local stores that you may visit in your community where you live.
• Could you share with us what's one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Before we wrap our interviews up, we always like to ask our guest, do you have a quote or saying that during times of adversity or challenge you’ll tend to revert to this quote, it kind of helps get you back on track if for any reason you get derailed.

Highlights

Brad’s Journey

Me: Now, even though we read our guest bio, we always like to give the guests an opportunity to share in their own words a little bit about how they got to where they are today. So, could you share a little bit about that with us?

Brad shared that he was born and raised in Australia and moved to the United States, married an American girl. So, they have 5 kids. So, he guesses he’s stuck in America now, he’s an “Aus” American. Being in every type of business, you name it, he’s had it, whether it's service or retail or actually manufacturing. He did manufacture in the food space, he’s been across the board, he’s an entrepreneur, he buys and builds and sells companies, that's what he does. And teaching became a passion and as mentioned his 90x programme.

When he hit 50, he thought what is he going to do and he built himself a TV studio and he went in and recorded 30 minutes a day, every day of business and then 30 minutes a day every day for life and success principles. And then the same for wealth and thought, “I'm going to give back” and their main company Action Coach, obviously, they’re in 83 countries, he knows that coach Marcia in Jamaica there. And across Africa, they have their coaches all across the Caribbean in fact, in the US, they have about 1100 offices around the world doing that. So, 17 books on the subject of business and wealth. So, he guesses he’s a prolific at creating books, kids and businesses.

Me: Amazing and for those of our listeners that clearly will not have heard our pre podcast conversation. I met Brad when he came to Jamaica in 2016 and his presentation was amazing. And Coach Marcia, who represents Action Coach in Jamaica, she's also supremely amazing, like everything Brad talks about, she continuously preaches, be, do and have and it's just amazing.

The Concept of Working in a Business That Can Work Without You

So, Brad, could you share with us, I know that your whole life has been surrounded around building businesses and in your bio, it mentioned that at the end of the day, you want to be working in a business that can work without you. Like so many people don't understand that concept. Could you explain what that means?

Brad shared that well, in essence, what they’re trying to do is the difference between working for yourself and building a business is two very vastly different things. Working for yourself is building a job for yourself.

Building a business is building something that is an investment that makes money whether you show up or not. So, his definition of a business is a commercial profitable enterprise that works without you.

He learned this early in his career that he was the hardest working person in his business. In some cases, he even took home less money than a lot of the staff in his business and it just didn't seem right to him to work that way. So, he had to learn how to turn his business into something that worked so he didn't have to. See when the business works, the owner doesn't have to. If the business doesn't work, then the owner is generally the hardest working person in the business.

Principles That Will Make You More Successful as a Business Owner or an Entrepreneur

Brad stated that if we're going to go with just 3, it’s hard when you've written this many books and taught for this long to pick just 3. So, first he would go, you don't build your business, your people do.

Your job as the owner or the CEO is to build your people, they build your business for you. So, as you educate them, coach them, mentor them, train them. He still remembers 20 or 21, he forgot how old he was, he went to his dad and he said, “You know what, Dad, I just can't get good people.” And he said to him, “Brad, you get the people you deserve. You're an average manager running an average business, the highest caliber person that wants to work for you is average.”

And it's like a big slap in the face. Thanks, dad. But he was right. If I became a great leader, then great people wanted to work for his company. So yeah, he would say that's the first one, build your people, they build your business.

The second he would say, you've got to be great at sales and marketing to be great at business, being the rainmaker, bringing in new business is one of the most important aspects and that's why out of his 17 books, actually his newest, his 18th book is all about marketing as well.

So, it really is about getting the customer in and keeping them for a lifetime, his definition of marketing is profitably buying lifetime customers. So, if he spends 1000 on an ad, and he gets 10 new customers, will it cost him 100 to buy each new customer. So, marketing is about the profitable buying of customers and when people learn it, every dollar out should bring $2 back in type thing. So, we really have to focus on that.

If he could only stick to 3. We will go through a lot more as we get through the day or through the session.

But he would say the third is, be really clear on where you're going with the business. He likes to think of business as something that you finish, you build it so that it eventually runs without you.

So, by what date will you finish the business? By what date will it run without you and then go to work on the business more than in the business type thing. Gerber said that based on his book.

Me: Indeed. So, we have to work on the business and so many business owners, myself included, work in our business and not necessarily on our business. And it kind of goes up and down, sometimes you get it to a point where you are working on the business and then for some reason you get back sucked into the operational activities and you're back in it again. So, it's up and down. But as you mentioned, if you really want to generate wealth, it's to have the business run on its own.

Traits a Leader Needs to Grow and Develop Their People

Me: Now, you mentioned at the beginning, I loved your first point stating that you need to develop and work on your people. And of course, that's all this podcast is about, navigating the customer experience and I preach constantly about the fact that internal customers are so important in a business. Many times, companies focus on the external, but if you don't get it right internally, it's highly unlikely you're going to be able to master it externally. So could you share with us I would say maybe, let's move it up to five traits that a leader needs to really grow and develop their people.

Brad shared that we’ll break that into two separate segments. First of all, we'll break it into the difference between management and leadership. Because in a business, you need both management and leadership.

Now management is a system and leadership is an art form, the system of management is designed to do two things. Management should build competency and productivity in the people in your organization. So, build better people like build their competency, build so they can do a good job by training, coaching, mentoring, educating, make sure your people are competent at their job. If there's a lack of competency, there's a lack of management or there's bad management going on.

Productivity is also management. So, it's really about how do you manage people to get a high level of productivity because if you want to double a business, if you want to double your profits, you either have to double the number of people or double the productivity of the existing people, productivity is always faster and easier. And then the flip side then if you look at leadership.

Leadership is also in his opinion about two things. But this is where it's about, if management is sort of the short-term day to day, week to week. Leadership is more than monthly, quarterly, annual and 3 to 5 year type thing where in a leadership scenario, he’s looking to create passion and focus. So, the leader’s job is really building passion amongst the people and building focus. To be focused, they need to know what they're doing, what are their goals sort of thing. Where are we headed? To be passionate, there has to be more meaning to work than just the paycheck and more meaning to work than just the profitability of the company.

As a Leader, What Attracts the Right People to Come to You

Me: Indeed, indeed. So, we spoke about management and leadership so important. Now, Brad, let's say for example, you had mentioned that you said, your dad said to you, “You attract the people that you deserve.” Where do you get to that point where you're starting to attract really quality people? Is it because of the energy that you're giving out, your leadership style, what makes the right people or attracts the right people to come to you?

Brad stated that all of the above. Plus, recruiting today has to be seen as exactly that recruiting, it's not hiring anymore. Most people don't think of it this way, but what you want to do is you want to be more like a sporting team, they don't go and place an ad and say, “Hey, if you're out of work, apply to come work for us, we really want all of the people that are out of work to apply for us.” No, a sporting team goes and looks for the best player in that position.

Now, most of the best people already have a job, the vast majority of the best people are already working. So, how do you get your job advertisement? How do you get the fact that you are recruiting in front of the right people? And that's where marketing has to kick in. How do you actually invest money in marketing for a job?

Twenty/thirty years ago, people were like, “I just placed the ad and 100 people apply, and I picked the best one.” Not anymore. The way that we have to look at it these days is we have to go searching for the best of the best people, we have to search for them on LinkedIn, we have to search for them through Google, we have to search for them through Facebook, we have to search for them by going through people who know us like.

We often find that the best employees are people that already knew us, they already know our company. So, they might be on our newsletter, or they might be a friend of someone that already works for us. Or they might follow us on social media. So, how are you marketing that position to find the best of the best, and have them at least see that you are recruiting? That's the vital one.

Me: Brilliant, I've never heard someone, I would say reposition it the way how you just repositioned it for us. And you are right. If you take that approach that you've just indicated to us, your father is absolutely right, like on target in terms of attracting the people that you deserve. Because you really want to ensure that you're getting the right people, as you mentioned, using the analogy of a sporting team and getting the best player, because then you will really have a totally impactful and efficient and effective team, which is critical if you really want the business to grow. And as you as you mentioned at the beginning, function without you. I love that.

Views on Marketing

Me: Now, we spoke a little bit about leadership, we spoke a little bit about internal customers. Could you share with us a little bit about marketing? I get a lot of questions sometimes, should we spend a lot of money on marketing and advertising of our business? Shouldn't it be a case where our customers, especially if we're a brand that's already known, we’re like a household name. What's your views on marketing? Is it something that still needs to be occurring to keep present in the customers mind? And if so, based on the fact that marketing has changed so much I would say in the last 10 to 20 years as you've mentioned, which platforms do you focus your marketing on?

Brad shared that is a lot of questions in one way, let's see what we can get to. First of all, marketing should be something that never stops. Marketing is the lifeblood of a business. Marketing has two jobs, getting new business and keeping business. So, you got to get them in and you got to keep them in. What's the use of building a database of existing customers and that even assumes that businesses are, you must collect the names, emails, phone numbers, etc. of every single prospect, every single customer in your business, that is the most valuable asset of business has its database of existing customers, its database of prospective customers.

Now, what you need to understand if he goes back to what he said earlier about marketing is it's the job of marketing is to buy customers, to buy new business, to buy new customers is a consistent thing. So, we're getting them in and we're keeping them in, we're looking at lifetime value of a customer, meaning how much are they worth to us over years of buying from us and that's where most businesses don't invest the time and energy because they don't even think about that. When he was in the dog food business, their average customer stayed with them for 3 years, which meant they spent over $3,000 with them and they made over $800 in profit from them. You think about that. If you just thought of your customer as a one off sale, you don't actually make a lot of money from that person, you don't think of it that way. But if you keep them for their lifetime, you'll make a fortune out of that customer.

Now, in order for marketing to really work in this day and age, he thinks the biggest thing we have to understand is that historically, marketing was almost like asking to get married on a first date, we ran an ad, and we asked you to buy straight from the advertisement. In this day and age, it seems stupid to go up to like, “Yanique, if you and I met in a bar, and I walked up and said, You look like a very smart, attentive, wonderful woman, I think you'd be a great mother, why don't we get married?”

That is the dumbest thing you could ever think of, but that's what most marketing is. You've got to actually ask people, “Why don't we have a coffee first? Why don't we get to know each other type thing.” And so, what we call that as you've got to ask prospects to raise their hand, you got to say, “Hey, if you're interested in this, then raise your hand.” And he’ll give you a simple example of that.

So, at Action Coach, one of the things they do is a lot of sales training. So, they have a sales training programme for companies. He just did a webinar yesterday on sales training for companies with 20 or more salespeople, so the whole thing was, how do you manage your salespeople? How do you get great results from your salespeople?

So, 84 people showed up to their webinar saying, “I have 20, or more salespeople, I'd like to learn how to manage my salespeople.” By the end of that webinar, out of the 84, 60 of them said, “I would be interested in finding out about the sales training programme.” So not only does he then do the webinar and get 60 people that are interested, but now today on all of his social media will run a post that says, “Just finished my webinar on how you manage a great sales team, how you get your sales team to perform. If you're interested in the recording of the webinar, please type the word webinar below.”

So, he’ll probably over the next month or two, get another 200, 300, 400, 1000 people that will type the word webinar. And then you'll have another 1000 people that are interested in their sales training, does that make sense? So, his goal is to start conversations. He teaches conversion rate, because that's important, out of every 10 people that call, how many did you convert?

But marketing really needs to look at conversation rate, what is the rate of conversation, so he doesn't care how many likes, how many comments you get, what he cares about on your social media, on your emails, on everything you do is how many conversations were started by that post.

Me: Indeed, indeed, that makes a great amount of sense. And I guess it doesn't matter the platform, whether it's LinkedIn, or Instagram, or Tik Tok, as long as the conversation is happening, and it's being generated, and there's some buzz and word of mouth around it and there's interest. Yeah.

Brad agreed, 100%.

App, Website or Tool that Brad Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business

When asked about online resource that he cannot live without in his business, Brad stated that he’s was going to say his phone, or Zoom. He’s a believer in better levels of communication. He’s a believer in high quality conversations more over low quality conversations. People like email, they like their texting, he personally thinks that a phone call or a Zoom call, obviously the highest form of communication is face to face. But he would rather have a phone call than a text message or an email, he would rather do that. And he knows that his kids, having 5 kids, he always end up in this debate. His kids text him and he’s like, “Stop texting me. I don't answer your texts. You call me I'm your dad.” But if he wants a great relationship with a customer, it's not going to happen via email, it's not going to happen via texting, it's going to happen by communication at a high level, which is face to face or at least voice to voice.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Brad

Me: So, you mentioned that you are on your 18th book, but outside of the books that you've written, I'm sure you have read 1000s of books. So, could you maybe pick one or two that have had a great impact on you over your lifetime? It could be a book you read recently, or even one that you read a very long time ago.

When asked about books that have a great impact on him, Brad shared that he could list off the last set that he just finished reading. The last seven that he just finished reading Marcus Sheridan, They Ask, You Answer, amazing marketing book. Marcus is phenomenal around it. They asked, You Answer. Subscribed, Subscribed is a phenomenal book, his name is Tien Tzuo, a phenomenal book about marketing and the future of it. And then Oversubscribed. So, there's two books, they're both on the words on subscription. So, you can imagine what he’s learning about. Daniel wrote a great book on that one.

Blitzscaling, another phenomenal one by Reid Hoffman, he really enjoyed that. The Membership Economy by Robbie Baxter, she's phenomenal. Just loved the work she does. The Business of Belonging, David Spinks, really cool book, really, really cool. And Building Brand Communities, that one there, Charles Vogel with Carrie Jones. So yeah, that's the last 7 books he read. Out of those, he would probably say Marcus's book They Asked, You Answer would be the top of the 7 that he just read. He reads a books a week, so he raced through a lot of books.

How Has Your Experiences Been Across Different Industries

Me: Now, you do travel, I imagine quite a bit, Brad, and you interface with many different organizations across different industries, across different cultures. What has been your experience, I would say, let's narrow it down to the last one to two years of customer experience. And I know it's a very general and a wide question, but we just want to get an idea of how your experiences has been across different industries, like travelling to a hotel, or airline or restaurant, or even just local stores that you may visit in your community where you live.

Brad shared that what's happened is, obviously, COVID changed a lot of the way we perceive the world, it virtualized the world in a way that we would never have thought possible. And that to him, has been a phenomenal thing, the level of virtual nature of the world. He thinks that we have seen a lot of the customer service experience move to more virtualized and that doesn't make it more positive by the way, that just means it's more virtualized.

The average consumer, he thinks has a little more patience at this point, not a lot more but a little more patience at this point. He lives in Las Vegas, he’s in the epicentre of sort of customer service mentality, because it's a city based around tourism and Yanique’s in Jamaica, in a country where tourism is very high on the agenda sort of thing.

And so, in these markets, we must be customer related. And he’ll give you an example of how Vegas is different. People come here to watch a sporting event, or come to a football game or a hockey game, or whatever it might be. And normally, they're used to going to other cities where the local fans hate on the new fans coming to town type thing. Well, in Vegas, they love it when other people come to town, like, “Oh, you're visiting our city. Thanks for doing that. We appreciate you paying our taxes.” They are a hospitality-based city. So, he thinks the customer service experience in Vegas. Now that being said, where he sees the customer service experience moving to is a lot of the removal of humans, if you want to scale a business, you need to remove humans from a lot of the things now, that's because in two ways.

You need to remove humans where they didn't add value. So, for instance, Uber, all Uber really did was remove humans from the hiring a taxi, you remember the days when to get a taxi, you actually had to call a number, that person then gave the address to the dispatcher, the dispatcher then called all the taxis and said, who's in this area. And it took three people to get a taxi to your house, so they just removed the humans. There's a lot of areas where having a human actually detracts from the experience, it doesn't add to the experience, if that makes sense. And so, we're seeing a lot of the customer service experience removing humans where they don't add value.

Me: That does make sense. And I'm so happy that when you started talking about removing humans, I was actually going to ask if you actually think there's no use for humans in customer interactions anymore, but I'm glad you gave the example of Uber and you specifically stated if the human experience or the human being there is not adding value because I do believe that people genuinely still want human to human interaction, but it depends on what service or what value as you had mentioned that human is providing. So, if you think about it, technology should be there to assist us in delivering the service. But I don't think as a society even globally, we're ever going to get to the point where humans are going to be completely eliminated from all interactions.

Brad shared that no, people need people, we saw that through COVID. People at the end of COVID thought, “Oh, I'll never want to go back to an office, I want to stay working from home." And then the immediacy, immediately when we could go back to an office people like, “Oh, thank God, I could get out of my house.” It's like, “Oh, I love my spouse, but not that much. Two years locked up together was enough.” He remembers during the middle of COVID, they came down and actually spent two weeks in Jamaica, Discovery Bay and sat on the beach there and they rented a big house and just sat on the beach and had a great time.

And some of his friends, he was like, “Well, if you want to come and visit us, you can, but if you feel uncomfortable, that's okay.” Everyone's like, “We're coming. We're coming.” Like, humans need human interaction. And it's interesting to see though, people going back to the workforce now the number of them who have requested cubicles as raised dramatically, because whilst they're happy to go back and be with people, they do want more privacy, because they liked the privacy of working from home too. So that's been an interesting change.

What Brad is Really Excited About Now!

When asked about something that he’s really excited about, Brad shared that he’ll give you two things. Actually. One, their charities, he has the Action Coach Foundation, they take a lot of young people through YES programme (Young Entrepreneurs Smart Start). So, they actually teach 12 to 22 year olds how to not leave school and get a job, but how to leave school and give people a job. So, rather than being an employee, being an employer. The world doesn't need more employees, it needs more entrepreneurs who give people jobs. And so, they're taking a lot of young people and helping them through that process. So that's super exciting for him.

From a business side, probably because he buys into companies all the time, he’s very excited, their commercial cleaning business and people like, “You're excited about a cleaning business.” Yes, he loves their cleaning business. When he originally purchased to share, it's based in Australia. And now they’re opening in the US and the UK. And so, he loves watching his companies go global, he loves his businesses, geography shouldn't limit your business, especially now, especially after we've gone through this whole phase of people can do business virtually, well, they can buy from anywhere in the world right now. And so, watching that business expand into a global phenomenon is going to be a lot of fun for him.

Me: Amazing. Now, you mentioned that you have a programme for young people between the ages of 12 and 22. If we do have listeners that are interested in that programme, how can they connect? And maybe sign up or be part of that process?

Brad shared their Action Coach Foundation website:

Website – actioncoachfoundation.org

Where Can We Find Brad Online

LinkedIn – Brad Sugars

Facebook – Brad Sugars

Website – www.bradsugars.com

Website – www.actioncoach.com

Me: Amazing. You mean you're really easy to find.

Brad shared, could you imagine being a marketer and not having someone being able to find you on every single platform there is, jump on Amazon. Amazon has all 17 of his books available. So, Audible has his books on Audible. So, you can find him pretty much everywhere.

When asked if he was on Tik Tok, Brad shared that he is, but he doesn't dance. His team asked him to do that. And he told them the story. If you think about marketing, and being true to your brand, because it's really important to be true to your brand. He had an advisor who was taking them through Pinterest, and she said, “You need to appeal to a more female audience because that's who's on Pinterest” and she kept telling him how he needed to wear certain things. And he said, “That's not who I am. That's not the way I want to be. And I'm not going to do that.”

So, he told his team the story of Adele, Adele was in a marketing meeting and a young person came in and said, “Well, we need to write a song that's going to go viral on Tik Tok that people can do a dance to.” Adele left the meeting and said, “If that young person is at another meeting ever, I will fire this company as my representation.” Being truly your brand is important. So yes, he uses Tik Tok, but he doesn't do things that are not him.

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Brad Uses

When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Brad shared that he’ll give 2, both are from the same gentleman, his name was James Rohn. Mr. Rohn said to him, he was 16 years of age, sitting in Rizman City Town Hall listening to him speak, him and about 1500 other people. And he said he things that he wrote down that he believes changed the course of his life. The first thing he said was, “Never wish your life were easier, or wish that you were better.”

And it struck him because a 16 year old, you’re sort of sitting there saying “Oh, I want this, I want that.” And it all about what you want. Mr. Rohn made him recognize the fact that his goal is not to want things, his goal is to get better.

And he backed it up with the second statement that was, “Work harder on yourself than you do on your job.”

And he remembers running down to him at the end of the event asking him to sign his notes, which unfortunately he lost in a move one time, because he had him signed them, he signed his notes and he said, “Mr. Rohn, what’s one thing I can do as a 16 year old boy to make certain I’m successful in life?” and he said, “Son, it’s really simple, read a book a week for the rest of your life. Not a month, not every 2 weeks, read a book a week for the rest of your life.” Today Audible reads to him, so he’s very lucky.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• They Ask You Answer: A Revolutionary Approach to Inbound Sales, Content Marketing, and Today’s Digital Consumer by Marcus Sheridan
• Subscribed: Why the Subscription Model Will Be Your Company’s Future – and What to Do About It by Tien Tzuo
• Blitzscaling: The Lightning-Fast Path to Building Massively Valuable Companies by Reid Hoffman
• The Membership Economy: Find Your Super Users, Master the Forever Transaction, and Build Recurring Revenue by Robbie Baxter
• The Business of Belonging: How to Make Community Your Competitive Advantage by David Spinks
• Building Brand Communities: How Organizations Succeed by Creating Belonging by Carrie Jones and Charles Vogl

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Sanja Licina is here to discuss with us all of the wonderful things that we can help you to master your customer experience. Her goal in life is to help make people happier. Most of us spend so much of our lives working and there is still a tremendous opportunity to help people feel better connected to their companies, to their colleagues and to feel passionate to make a difference with their work.

So, she's dedicated her career to helping companies create a culture that employees love to be part of. She has been fortunate to travel to over 60 countries and lives on three continents. And through this journey meets the most amazing, inspirational and passionate people. Collaborating this incredibly diverse group has given her even more confidence that together she can make a difference. Those who know her are aware of her deep passion for data and technology, which will be a key to helping all of us transform the world of work.

Questions

• Could you share with us a little bit about how you got to where you are today?
• Could you share with our listeners what is QuestionPro? And how does that really dove tail or fit into the whole customer experience puzzle? How does your company help customer experience?
• QuestionPro focuses a lot on market research. Could you share with us if your target is predominantly large companies, or let's say for example, someone has an organisation with 20 employees, but they have a pretty large customer base, would your company be able to provide services for them as well? what are some key indicators or trends that you have noticed since you're already in this space, what do you think companies need to be focusing on in order to ensure that they're really tapping into the needs of their customers?
• Could you share with our listeners, how do you stay motivated every day? What makes you keep going?
• Could you also share with our listeners, what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business?
• Could you share a book that has had the biggest impact on you, it could be a book that you read a very long time ago or even one that you read recently.
• Could you share with us what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about, either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people?
• Where is the best place that listeners can find you online?
• Now, before we wrap our episodes up, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote, it kind of helps to get you back on track if for any reason you get derailed or just get you back on track with what you're working on. Do you have a quote like that?

Highlights

Sanja’s Journey

Me: Even though we read your bio that basically gives us a summary of what you do. But we love to hear from our guests in their own words, a little bit about how they got to where they are today.

Sanja stated that as mentioned, she’s had a privilege of living on three different continents. And she’s actually talking with Yanique right now out of Buenos Aires, Argentina. She was born and raised in Belgrade, Serbia, and spend about half of her life in the United States. And so, for her, she’s had this incredible pleasure of interacting with so many different people in her life path both personally and professionally.

And so, her profession is Organizational Psychologist and she actually currently is president of a business unit called the Workforce at a company called QuestionPro. And they also have a customer experience business unit. So, in her life, she feels like she’s had, again, this personal/professional intersection where she had a pleasure working for an organization that's not only helping people feel seen and valued at work, but also has this tremendous focus on customer experience. Because we're all the same thing, we don't look at the person and say, “Okay, you're an employee now. But five minutes later, you're a customer only. And then maybe you're going to be an employee, again.” We really of course, are all of these things.

And additionally, no kids and parents and spouses and a million other things. So, she looks at that life experience, and she just have this huge passion for helping people be seen, and really helping organizations, whether it's from customer experience, or employee experience, understand the why behind people's behaviours and people's needs. Because when we understand that is really when we have this tremendous opportunity to provide people with better cultures, with better services, with better products, platforms, etc. So, she could go on and on, but she'll turn the mic back over.

What is QuestionPro?.... How Does Your Company Help Customer Experience?

Me: I mentioned in your bio, as well, as you mentioned just now in giving us a little overview of who you are, that you are attached to an organization call QuestionPro. So, could you share with our listeners what is Question Pro? And how does that really dove tail or fit into the whole customer experience puzzle? How does your company help customer experience?

Sanja shared that she’s had this incredible pleasure of actually about 15 years ago, being a customer of QuestionPro and using their survey technology to better connect with people who were looking for jobs, looking for different opportunities in the organization. And today, she sits on the other side, because again, her experience was so positive, as a customer that she thought she’d love an opportunity to actually join and help QuestionPro have an even wider reach and work with more organizations.

And so, when it comes to customer experience again, QuestionPro has multiple different divisions, and they’re also really big in market research. So, they have access to over 40 million people worldwide to really be able to understand consumer behaviours, employee behaviours, purchasing whatever it is that an organization or research institution is looking to solve.

They have both the technology, the expertise, and helping them craft those questions, as well as the audience to really help them solve those challenges. And then they also have the CX and EX business units, they really work seamlessly together. CX in particular, working with organizations again, to understand how do they best connect with people that they’re doing business with?

How do they reach them in the point that they can get the best information around their perception of who they are as an organization, their satisfaction, and how do they interact. And then, of course, the EX part where it fills that loop because there's so much research where they see that how satisfied you are in your job, how connected you feel to the company's mission and vision that has a huge impact and how you interact with customers.

So, they’ve really at QuestionPro look for these multiple ways to understand the world around us that as we know, is just changing faster than it ever has before. And we have every reason to believe that that's just going to exponentially accelerate, and be able to give this holistic vision of what that customer experience is, not only in a way that person interacts with a product or a platform or a brand, but really understand, again, from all of these different angles as an organization, what can their clients do better and differently to really give their customers a better experience.

So, it's all very much research based, data driven and they really pride themselves on creating these very empathetic conversations. She was mentioning earlier the why, they want every person to feel seen, to feel heard, that when that conversation is happening, they really truly believe that the organization on the other end cares about them as an individual, not only about the consumer of their product. And she thinks the more data they have, and the more holistic understanding they have of that, the better off they’ll be as a society and the better off each one of their clients will be.

Does Your Company Target Predominantly Large Companies?

What Companies Need to Focus on in Order to Ensure That They Tap into the Needs of Their Customers

Me: So, QuestionPro focuses a lot on market research. Could you share with us if your target is predominantly large companies, or let's say for example, someone has an organization with 20 employees, but they have a pretty large customer base, would your company be able to provide services for them as well? That's part A of my question.

And then Part B. In terms of market research, what are some key indicators or trends that you have noticed since you're already in this space, what do you think companies need to be focusing on in order to ensure that they're really tapping into the needs of their customers? Because sometimes a company offers something to a customer, but I think they're doing it for your own benefit and not necessarily what the customer actually wants or needs.

Sanja stated that they are both great questions from a standpoint of what kind of organizations they work with, they actually span a very, very wide, wide range. They even have, of course, they work with larger companies. However, they even have programmes where they have free platforms, free programmes for entrepreneurs, because they believe that really stand apart experience does not only sit with the largest organizations, it's everyone that wants to really bring a unique idea to the world, to the marketplace.

They all are looking to have conversations with those individuals that they're looking to serve. And the better educated, the better targeted conversation you can have, the more quickly you can iterate on your product and on the way that you interact with your consumers to really make sure that what you're bringing out there is relevant, it's timely, and that you're adjusting it based on the market needs. So, when it comes to the part A of your question, when it comes to organizations, they really work whether you have 20 employees or whether you have 200,000 employees, they work with those organizations.

Now, when it comes to trends, she mentioned she an Organizational Psychologist. So, research is at the heart of everything she does. Data is what drives her decisions. And she’s been an Organizational Psychologist for quite a while, so she’s seen during her studies, they mostly relied on survey data to really inform their research, understand what's going on. Since then, there's been an explosion of behavioral kind of data, there's just a lot more information available for organizations to make a decision, which is absolutely phenomenal. What a what an incredible luxury for us to have.

However, one of the things that she noticed a few years back is a lot of people, very boldly saying, “Well, now that we have all this behavioral data, who needs surveys anymore?”

And she just thought this was even way before she worked at QuestionPro. She just grabbed her heart, and she thought, but what do you mean, these are to her, she calls it empathy at scale. It's these conversations we can have with people at scale to understand what they need, to understand how they feel, to have them feel seen and heard.

Behavioral data, again, is phenomenal and she would never discount it, but when you see how a person is acting, and oftentimes she'll compare that to a personal relationship.

So, for example, if her husband comes home, and he's behaving a certain way, if she’s in a good relationship, would she not ask him what's going on? And she sees this behavioral data, he must have had a bad day at work, well, maybe it was his family, maybe he's not feeling well, there could be all of these different reasons.

And so, a big part of the reason why she loves what they do is they provide organizations a platform to have this conversation, to have it in a very humane way. And a lot of the trends that we're seeing, and we're also trying to influence.

She remembers again, back in the day, 20 plus years ago, when she was getting her PhD, a lot of times surveys, she guess, for lack of a better word, were very surgical, you would ask somebody based on your experience, how would you rate this on a scale of one to five, but there's so much more humanity that can be entered into that if you are interacting with any kind of product or platform, you're doing it for a reason.

And so, that organization has an opportunity to ask you, “Hey, we know what are you looking to accomplish for this, when you chose us, what was that reason? What are maybe some of your goals that you're looking to accomplish today?” So, maybe somebody is buying a piece of makeup, and we assume that it's for something aesthetic for themselves, but maybe it was for a family member, maybe it was in a moment that they're working on self-improvement, there is so much that can be understood when you think of a person that you're interacting with, as a human, as somebody, all of us, no matter how good of relationships we have, when you sit across, she will call a table even though it's a virtual table, virtual survey, and you feel like somebody's asking you questions where they truly care about you, you'll never want to miss that conversation.

And for the organizations on the other side, the amount of insights that you will get not only about necessarily a specific interaction that somebody had with one person in a store, but to open up that opportunity to have a conversation with someone and we're seeing so many changes in the market, we're seeing changes in people's behaviour.

For example,  she bought a piece of makeup recently, and she ordered it online. And she did so because this never happened in her life, but she lost her entire makeup bag travelling back from New York. Exactly. She was pretty calm about and she said, okay, let her think about different pieces that she needed. And she ordered something online because her schedule is chaotic and balancing her work and her four-year-old and her family and many different things.

And she could have walked to the store, but she just didn't have a chance to. And so, she ordered something online, and unfortunately, they sent her the wrong thing. It happens, not big of a deal, we'll figure it out. She went to the store, they said she needed a code to change it. Okay, it was a little sad, it's going to be just difficult. She came back and they gave her an email to write to and she wrote and somebody very nice wrote back and said, “Well, we're so sorry, we made a mistake. Okay, well, here's the shipping label, if you could print it out and go to the shipping store.” And she said, “I'm really sorry, that's not going to work for me. I ordered this because I just don't have the time. And now you're asking me to go to one place print a label, go to another place and mail this, wait for it to come back home.”

And they came back, and they said, “Okay, we'll make an exception.” But in some ways that was a missed opportunity for a conversation if they can know the location where she’s in, so it's that behavioural data, they see that she ordered something, the solution that they provided out of the goodness of their heart didn't make sense to her. But if they took that opportunity to just ask a few questions and say, “Hey, we're looking to solve your challenge. Can you just help us understand what was the main reason you ordered online?” They probably could have given her much quicker, a better solution, without her being frustrated.

So again, it's every time thinking about that individual that put trust in a brand that choose, we have so many options for everything these days. And it's so much easier to choose than it was ever before because so many things are online, so much advertising is online, so you're aware, not only are there more options, but she thinks we're aware of more options than we ever were before. To ask those like, what was the reason for something, to get to know a person a little bit better, you can start to build out that persona, and at a scale, have a better understanding of people in one to one how you have that conversation and how you collect the information will tremendously help build that relationship. You can probably tell she’s very passionate about what she does, because she probably just talked for about 10 minutes straight, but she hopes it’s at least a little bit helpful.

Me: Of course, definitely. Everything you said was just so valuable just now, it is really paying attention and being mindful and asking the right questions. And I say all the time that companies collect so much information from us from time to time, depending on the product or service that you're engaging with. And I don't find that they're really using that data to the best, to the fullest capacity. Sometimes they even ask questions to answers that they have already. And that just goes to show that they're not paying attention to the data that they're collecting. So, it's good for you to put it in perspective like that and give us an example. Because then it really brings it home, because it's not just about saying that I took information, but what did I actually do with it? And if I was asking the right questions, based on what was happening to you with the makeup situation, you would have probably gotten a way better solution and definitely one that you would have been pleased with.

How Sanja Stays Motivated?

When asked about how she stays motivated, Sanja shared that she is by nature a very positive person, a very optimistic person, a happy person. But she says even given that, she has her moments where she’s just tired or cranky, so we're all human. It's not easy to ride that high all the time. But to her, there are a couple of things. She thinks that first if we keep in mind that there are all of those like different cartoons about careers and staying motivated, and the path to success and this ladder. And there's one where you see a really, really long ladder, and you feel like, “Oh, I'm never going to get there.” But then you look back and you see how much you've accomplished.

So, there's actually a book that she’s halfway through now. It's called The Gap and The Game: The High Achievers’ Guide to Happiness, Confidence, and Success and it was written by two gentlemen, Dan Sullivan, and was with Dr. Benjamin Hardy. It's a book about focusing on the things that you have accomplished more than the things that you have not accomplished yet. And it really resonated with her to the point that she was actually at the hairdresser on Saturday. And she was starting to get tears in her eyes because of the stories that they were sharing, she thought, ah, if more people can think this way, if more people can really take a step back and understand especially this happens not in the moments of celebration, right in the moments of celebration, and when something really great happens, you don't need to stay motivated, that celebration in itself might be enough.

But in the moments when you just tried something, and it didn't work. And we say ah, failure is so critical to success. But it's tough when it happens, and we need to talk ourselves into a better space and that's human. But one of the things that she really loved about this book, is this reflection on taking the time and looking back at what you have accomplished in the last month, in the last year, in the last 10 years. And she thinks if we do that more as people, if we do that more systematically, each individual person will realize how much they have to celebrate, and it doesn't mean that we should not be motivated by goals, of course, that's still important.

But more often than not, when we're achieving those goals, we're going to have missteps, we're going to make bets on things that we're going to be sure are going to help us and realize they didn’t. And it's in those moments to take a step back and say, “Okay, but what did I do? How much of a difference have I made? How many people have I maybe helped along the way? And how much have they helped myself along the way?” Sanja thinks that is absolutely tremendously powerful.

And she was actually talking with a colleague of hers, and he asked her, “Oh, but Sanja, like, do you feel like you can do that all the time?” And she said, “Of course not, that's why I'm reading this book.” She’s still very much a work in progress, all of us are. But finding, seeking out these ways to really help ourselves, especially during the moments that are challenging, and she mentioned before that she does believe the world around us is changing so quickly. And what's sometimes hard about that is that things that we experimented with before are things that we've had success with before. A lot of times, the circumstances around us have changed so much that if we repeat the exact same thing, we will not get that success. So, it's not just about this mastery of oh, I have experience, I'm older and wiser. But wait a minute, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years passed, since tried the strategy, the world around me is very different. I can try it again but if it doesn't succeed, I still need to have that passion and energy to try again.

So, she thinks really so much of it is about the mindset. But also people understanding that if something does happen that's not as successful as expected it to be, to give themselves some time to feel that frustration, almost like the 5-10 minutes or however long it takes of mourning, look back, reflect and then go ahead again. That's really where her mind is these days. And again, she’s enjoyed this book tremendously and the mindset that it helps people develop. So, she would say that would be one of the ways that she stays motivated.

App, Website or Tool that Sanja Absolutely Can’t Live Without in Her Business

When asked about online resources that she cannot live without her in business, Sanja shared that she was thinking about that question. And she thought as she looked at her thought phone, she thought, she has so many apps on her phone, and she has so many ways of communication. And as they were saying earlier in their conversation, she’s lived in so many continents, and she has people that she loves and even more continents than where she’s lived. So, to stay up on news and research and everything, it requires quite a few. But she would say the one publication that she really enjoys is Harvard Business Review, she thinks for her line of work, it's really powerful, the articles are very well thought out.

It rolls into the application that she may be use the most and that's probably LinkedIn, nobody's going to sit in their chair and be like, “Wow, I've never heard of that. Well, let me write it down.” But in to her, she really likes it because it summarizes a lot of her professional interests.

Of course, a lot of times LinkedIn is as good as the people you're connected with, and people that you follow. So, she tries to make a very conscious effort that if she reads books from authors that she enjoys, if they happen to be on LinkedIn, she either follows them or connect with them. She does the same for the publications that she enjoys, whether it's again, Harvard Business Review, or The Economist or any other ones.

And then it's also interesting, because she has to admit that unlike a lot of other maybe social media platforms, you tend to connect with more like-minded individuals, so that's something to be careful about. She tries to proactively connect with people or follow people who maybe have different experiences than her, maybe slightly different beliefs than her because it's one place where she feels like she can get more of, she guess in her professional life more so than personal life exposed to different ideas, although more people are sharing things personally on LinkedIn, which she really enjoys. And it's one place that she can pop into every once in a while, and it increases her awareness of maybe again, books that she should read or interesting articles or different viewpoints or, to your point, what's going on around the world, what are organizations doing, what are people researching.

And she also loves that it gives her a platform to share some of what she knows back. So, she probably consumes information from LinkedIn a lot more than she shares, but she tries to hold herself accountable. They do a lot of research at QuestionPro and that's one of the things. Again, she enjoys most even though really a big focus on her personal job is employee experience and working with organizations on that, she’s doing a lot of market research herself.

And when she finds information that she feels like she hasn't really come across this before, she thinks for somebody that's in a similar practice as she is would find this valuable, it also gives her a platform in a way to have a conversation. So, she’s not just consuming the news and consuming the information, but she can also try to add value to those that she’s connected with as well. And that makes her feel really good.

And of course, some things she shares, she’s sure some people find a lot of value and other things maybe a little less. But she loves that feeling that she can actually contribute to the society as much as she’s taking back out of it. So again, she doesn't think anybody's writing this down as an application they've never heard of, they do. And she’s been very conscious about how she uses it. And she has found a lot of value when she has limited time. And she can't go to all the many applications that she has, she feels like to her, especially professionally, but even personally, it adds a lot of value.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Sanja

Me: When we asked you how you stayed motivated, you did share one book with us. So, since you gave us one already, maybe you can give us one more book that you believe has had the biggest impact on you, it could be a book you read a very long time ago or even one that you read recently.

When asked about books that have had the biggest impact, Sanja shared that she has a whole list next to her, but she’ll summarize it. And if you look at a lot of the books she has today are on Kindle, because it's not as easy to find books in English in Argentina, and she’s a faster reader in it. So, she has professional books, she has her what they call, quote unquote, somewhat guilty pleasures, but a lot of times they're really beautiful novels. And then they have kid development books. Today she’ll share the professional ones, for the audience will be maybe the most relevant.

The one that's still somewhat recent, but she just absolutely loves, in line with our conversation is Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know by Adam Grant. The reason she says that is because there's so many people with such strong beliefs and she thinks on the one hand, it's beautiful. And she thinks on the other hand, the more effectively we can open up our mind to other people's ideas, and understand where they're coming from, the better we're going to be as individuals. And in many ways, one of the areas she’s really passionate about and she focus on is diversity and inclusion.

And the best way that we can really connect with others, feel compassionate, feel empathetic, understand where they're coming from, is to take the time to understand their perspective, take the time to understand where they're coming from, to her, personally, it is so incredibly fulfilling as a human. But she thinks as a humanity, the more effectively we can do that and the more effectively we can tell people why it's valuable to them, that it's not that somebody is going to talk with you to try to convince you that you're wrong. But if somebody wants to talk with you to give you an even better perspective, to give you even more knowledge, to give you a different view, it doesn't mean that you need to change your opinion. But that pretty much without fail, you're going to be a better person because of it. She thinks not only professionally, but as a humanity, the more effectively we can do that we'll be in such a better place.

So, it is a relatively recent book. And it's again, one of those concepts that when you hear and maybe it's not like, “Well, Sanja, that's really earth shattering!” But she thinks how we do it, how we approach it, and she catches herself still right? Like she catches herself being so strong in some of her beliefs and she’s realized over her lifetime, that there were times that she was quick to judge someone, and there were times that she would have been a better friend, a better partner, a better leader, if she would have just taken time to listen.

She’s gotten to the point that she’s trying to very consciously be much more open minded in everything she does, sometimes she needs to be proactive about it, it still doesn't always come as naturally as she would like to, she thinks that's most things in life that we care about, we have to work on. But it's also how you approach it and how often you catch yourself that even if you believe, quote unquote, you're a certain kind of person to do some self-reflection and say, “Am I really being that person consistently? Am I really showing up for the people that I'm around, really being open minded, really rethinking my stances, from very maybe large societal things to maybe even some small things and how we run our CX and EX programmes.”So, she will just mention that one from her list. There are many more, but she thinks that was probably a good one.

What Sanja is Really Excited About Now!

When asked about something that’s going on that she’s really excited about, Sanja stated what a phenomenal question. Sanja shared that she runs a business and a lot, of course, how successful her business is comes down to revenue and comes down to the number of clients they have, and so, many times that's in North, but a lot of what she’s reading about, and she’s passionate about professionally and personally is how to impact those around her. And so, there are different ways that she’s experimenting in being a leader first. And of course, a parent and a spouse and everything in her personal life for those people that are what she would call, for lack of better word, her first-degree connections, and comes of almost importance.

When they reflect back 5 years from now, 10 years from now, she wants them to think of her as a person that had a positive influence on them. One of the things that she’s experimenting with, because she gets asked a lot about herself, she gets asked a lot about her career, her passions, and a lot of her life was not conventional. And a lot of the decisions that she’s made could be surprising to people around why would she make it at that stage of my life? If she made that decision, how did she still end up where she is today? How does she maintain that happiness?

And so, something that she’s thinking about actually have a podcast as well, where they reach a wider audience, and they talk about work related issues and life related issues. And so, one of the things she’s thinking about is, how much does she want to scale out that impact? Doesn't make sense to have a broader audience? Does it make sense to try to reach more people and motivate them? Or is it not even motivate them, but make them feel confident, make them feel excited about taking risks, make them feel excited about what's possible that they maybe thought they could never accomplish. But really, truly they can. And that's one, it's a little high level, but she’s just thinking about it from the sense of what's the best way to reach people in a very personal way? And like, we're saying things are changing, is it in the form of writing a book? Is it a form of continuing a show? Is it a form of videos, but her aspiration is, if any little thing that she says can actually leave people with a better feeling about themselves, she would love to be able to do that at larger scale.

And so, she’s just going through the process of thinking, what is that best path now? So, she will keep us posted, she doesn't have all the answers yet. It's a little bit of an experimentation time, but that's something that she’s been reflecting on recently. And she’s feeling more and more passionate about, so she thinks that'll be somewhat of her next big project.

Where Can We Find Sanja Online

LinkedIn – Sanja Licina

Twitter – @SanjaLicina

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Sanja Uses

When asked about a quote or saying that she tends to revert to in times of adversity or challenge, Sanja shared you won't be surprised based on the books that she was just mentioning. And some of what keeps her motivated, it changes over time and it changes based on what she’s experiencing at the moment. Right now, one that really resonated with her and again, this is personal and professional is, “Be thankful for you are now and keep fighting for where you want to be tomorrow.”

Me: Oh, very nice. Very simple. Very nice. I'm a big gratitude buff so it's nice to hear that the quote is actually has some level of gratitude in. I have a gratitude app that I write stuff in daily and I actually have a gratitude journal and a gratitude jar. So gratitude is something I practice consistently, I think it really helps. I think as human beings, we complain a lot about what we don't have and what we want, we're not satisfied with where we are. But if we do take time, I think to be grateful and thankful for where we are and what we do have, I believe that more will abound onto us naturally.

Sanja agreed, absolutely. I love that. And she loves that, that's one of her aspirations, like where you're mentioning, like journaling and writing that down…I’m very much a work in progress when it comes to that, she doesn't do it consistently. But she knows that there's tremendous value there.

And she thinks to Yanique’s point, there are so many things happening around us that we can find ourselves saying, “I'm not good enough, I'm not doing this enough, I don't have enough money.” There's so many not enough’s that it just an every single person, no matter where they are in their journey, have so many things that they can be grateful for, even during times of real hardship, when she thinks finding that is even more important and even much more challenging than during the days that the things are going well.

She thinks the more we can instill that in ourselves, the easier it's going to be and to her, she catches herself every day she needs to move forward, every day she needs to accomplish something, while a day is 24 hours, it is not a whole lot of time to really do something significant. And so, she thinks if we can continue to reflect back, while we continue to build, it's going to give us in those moments, like we were saying where it's like, ah, I feel like maybe I'm falling short, giving us that energy to really fight through whatever adversity we have, or whatever challenges, it's just going to be that much more powerful.

So, she loves that Yanique does that very, very proactively and very intentionally. And she hopes that for people who are listening that inspires some more of them to do that as well, because she knows it's so incredibly valuable.

Me: Yeah, it is amazing. Thank you so much, Sanja. We just want to say thank you so much for taking time out of your very busy schedule, for hopping on this podcast with us today. And sharing all of these great gems and nuggets that I know our listeners are going to scoop up once they get the opportunity to listen to it first-hand. I know for sure I totally enjoyed this conversation and I just wanted to express my immense gratitude to you for sharing all these wonderful nuggets with us.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• The Gap and The Gain: The High Achievers’ Guide to Happiness, Confidence, and Success by Dan Sullivan and Dr. Benjamin Hardy
• Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know by Adam Grant

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Big RYG Customer Success Leadership Summit

October 12-13, 2022

Washington DC

Sign Up

Art Harrison is the Co-Founder and Chief Growth Officer at Daylight. He's an experienced entrepreneur and leader with over 20 years of experience developing and delivering production grade solutions. With a background in computer science and software development, Art was previously Vice President at iNTERFACEWARE and previously founded MXD Communities in 2001.

Questions

• Could you share a little bit about your journey, how did you get to where you are today?
• Could you tell us a little bit about Daylight? And what Daylight does and how Daylight is helping their customers achieve their goals?
• Could you share with us how is it that consumers or organizations are able to increase their overall customer satisfaction and brand loyalty by offering positive and engaging Omni channels CX at scale?
• Could you share with our listeners what low-code is for those listeners who are not familiar with that? And why do you believe it's disrupting the CX landscape?
• You're in the CX space, as well as the design space, could you share with us maybe one or two things that you've seen emerge in the last few months that you will see as an ongoing trend, at least for 2023 in this space?
• Could you also share with us what is the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business?
• Could you also share with our listeners maybe one or two books that have had a big impact on you, it could be a book that you read a very long time ago, or even one that you've read recently, but it still left a great impact on you.
• Could you also share with us what's one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Now, could you also share with our listeners, do you have a quote or saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you will tend to revert to this quote, it kind of helps to get you back on track if for any reason you get derailed.

Highlights

Art’s Journey

Art shared that like most people, it's been an interesting journey, it's not one that he would have mapped out in advance. But he'd say he’s always been passionate about using technology and building things. And he thinks that's been really the guiding principle of his career. So, he started off very entrepreneurial in the social networking and online dating space when he was in university. And really what he found from that led him to marketing and ultimately led him back to being a founder again, here at Daylight.

And it was just a passion to build things that people want to use, and to find ways to delight customers and end users along the way. And even though his career has spanned technical and marketing and other kind of lanes, the common thread has always been, “What do people need? And how can we make their lives better and delight them along the way?” And so, it's been an interesting journey. But he’s always excited about where it's going to lead him next.

About Daylight – What Does Daylight Do and How Daylight Helping Their Customers Achieve Their Goals

Art said absolutely. And kind of an interest of this podcast, Daylight is kind of in the space of customer experience, in that they're a platform that helps large enterprises primarily, but really any organization that knows how they want to improve the experience they're providing, not just to their customers, but to their employees as well.

And they're a platform that allows them to rapidly design, build and deploy solutions that really touch on that interaction between people and process. So, the simplest example he can give you is the TurboTax type of example, where you have the IRS and the United States, the CRA in Canada, any other tax agency, they have a business process, but it's a terrible process for most people to interact with.

And TurboTax and the tax industry exists to create a better on ramp that'll guide people through that process in a way that's intuitive to them and is the way they're used to working with other solutions, not just paper forms and addendums. Daylight is a platform that lets organizations build that kind of an experience for any interaction that their customers or their employees are having and to do it at scale across the entire organization. So, they're touching more places, and then proving that experience at every interaction that people are having with the business and their services or processes.

How Organizations Increase Their Overall Customer Satisfaction and Brand Loyalty by Offering Positive and Engaging Omni Channels CX at Scale

Me: Now, one of the areas that we would love to discuss with you, as we have you on our podcast is could you share with us how is it that consumers or organizations are able to increase their overall customer satisfaction and brand loyalty by offering positive and engaging omni-channels CX at scale? Could you share a little bit about that with us?

Art shared that it's a broad question, but he does think there's a lot of ways. Part of the thesis and a hypothesis when they were starting Daylight was this understanding that most organizations are primarily invest in the major touchpoints that they have with their clients.

So, you think about any lifecycle of a client, there's the research and acquisition phase or the signup phase, whatever you want to call it. So, how are we going to bring this customer in and most people are investing a lot of money to try and make that experience as pleasant as possible.

And then there is the renewal or upsell phase, a lot of investment goes in there. But everything that happens in between that is actually what leads to their satisfaction, their probability of churning or abandoning or leaving that organization and so when you can start thinking about what are all the ways that they need to interact with us, it may be that they're just looking for information, they're looking to change some basic information about themselves, their family, their account. And so, when you start thinking about how do we improve the CSAT scores or the NPS for the employees, it's really looking and saying, “Okay, we know we've got the book ends really well.” But there are dozens of times where that friction, they're leaving friction in place, or they're creating friction for someone just to talk to someone to understand, “Hey, can I change the payment date that I have?”or “I've just got married, I want to update some of my information so that my family is included in my account.”or whatever it may be.

When they can look at that and say, “What are all those touch points? How can we make a bigger impact and improve the experience across all of those areas?” And furthering that to like, how do they want to have that experience? It's one thing to say we're going to make everything available online and self-service and there is a core group of customers that care about that. But you need to also think about, well, sometimes there's a lot of information there, or it's someone that doesn't want it, they just want someone to take care of it for them.

You have to look at the entire lifecycle and all of the interaction points and find ways to create a more natural experience in any of those.

But one of the key things that they talk about at Daylight when they’re talking with customers, is changing this mindset of, “I have a business process, I have something that I want to accomplish and so I'm going to push it on to the customer in the way that I need it for them to give me their information.” So, you think about a bank, they have a process for anything, you want to open a new checking account, this is how they need the information. And historically, they would even if they were digitizing it, they take their process and put that online. But that's not how we think, as consumers, we don't think about their business process, we think about the outcome we want to have or the experience. So, you have to kind of evaluate all of those touch points from the perspective of the person doing it and try to make those improvements.

What is Low-Code and Why is it Disrupting the CX Landscape?

Me: Now, in preparing for this interview, I noticed that when you were introduced, it was introduced that you were a good candidate to speak about how low-code is disrupting the CX landscape. Could you share with our listeners what low-code is for those listeners who are not familiar with that? And why do you believe it's disrupting the CX landscape?

Art shared that typically, a low-code, it can mean a lot of things for a lot of people but the simplest description of that is historically, anything that you were building new, a technical task required software developers, designers, people on the technical side of the spectrum, to understand your needs, and build that solution for you to the best of their understanding. And what low-code does is it changes the paradigm so that by reducing the technical bar to build new solutions, you're shortening the distance between the person who actually knows the problem, and most likely even knows what the solution would be. And that solution getting built.

So, low-code exists in just about any category, any industry, he'll think of some brand names he has no affiliation with but, whether it's GoDaddy or Squarespace, or any website builder, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, you had to learn HTML, you had to learn how to code a website.

Now, you can go on to a low-code solution where you're dragging and dropping and building something that is professional grade, that looks amazing, that works on any device, that's low-code transforming, who can build websites. And when you think about the experience realm, whether that's digital experiences, the employee experiences for someone that works in a branch, the tools that are going to make your call centre more effective, any area that typically was relying on a service like an integrator or an SI, or a technology team within their own organization, they were waiting in the queue, depending on the size of their budget to get work done, they might have to wait months and months, they get something done eventually, but it's not what they wanted.

Low-code really changes that because now that person that is on the front line, who knows this is where it's always problematic with a customer, “I wish that I could just automatically do these couple of tasks or I wish I knew what to do when they said that they want to purchase this product or change their account in this way.”They understand that problem and low-code empowers them to build if not 100%, 80%, 90% of their solution directly, and keep changing it when they actually use it in the field. And so, it just means the iteration, the time to value and the bar or the barrier to making these better experiences is dropping. And that means you're going to continue to see improved experiences that are really meeting the needs of employees and customers across all kinds of organizations.

Me: All right, so basically making things more accessible to the average person. And I guess it really boils down to as you were saying, as I was listening to you, it really boils down to, I believe, also ensuring that everybody can have access to do the exact thing. When you were speaking just now, I was thinking of Canva. And I was thinking of back in the day, if you wanted to do a flyer or some form of publication for marketing or advertising, you typically get a graphic artist or even an advertising agency who have the talent in house to get it done. But I mean, you can become your own designer with Canva, they've made it so easy. And I thought of that when you're talking about making the design process and the coding process so easy.

Art stated that that's a perfect example. And he'll tie it back, again, he spends a lot of his time talking to these large enterprises that literally have 10s of 1000s of processes that are happening across the organization and insurance company has all different types of claims and policies and managements and call centres and issues that they're dealing with. The bank has branches and wealth products and everything else, they have so many. And going back to that TurboTax analogy, a lot of them are stressful. Like doing your taxes is inherently a stressful thing. You're worried if I do it wrong, am I going to get audited? Am I going to make a mistake? You kind of feel adversarial, like the person that I'm providing this information to doesn't actually have my best interests at heart.

When you can take all of those processes and reduce the cost to actually make something that's more intuitive, more delightful, you're enabling the people on the business side who know that we can improve the experience, our satisfaction scores, to make that improvement. You're improving the lives of the people that need to provide the information in.

As he said, often stressful experiences, it's like taking a test, you're really changing the dynamic of what can be addressed, how easily, how cost effectively it can be and then dramatically changing the types of experiences that can be built, you can take something like taxes, and turn that into something where it's more conversational. “Hey, did you change jobs this year?” “Great. Tell me about your new job.” “Did you get married?” “Great, there might be a tax benefit for you.” You took something that was previously just here, fill out box 66 and made it into something that now feels like, “Hey, this is working with me, this is a very different emotion, a very different experience that I'm interacting with this organization or this business process.”

In the CX Space and Design Space, What Are Things That Have Emerged in the Last Few Months that Will be an Ongoing Trend in 2023?

Me: So, we're approaching pretty much the end of 2022, I can't believe that we're almost in the final quarter of the year, like it just started. And you're in the CX space, as well as the design space, could you share with us maybe one or two things that you've seen emerge in the last few months that you will see as an ongoing trend, at least for 2023 in this space.

Art shared that for him, and he’s only one perspective and as he says to his own clients, the clients of Daylight, he’s in the vendors mindset. So, as much as he works hard to stay neutral or to be very open and really help people find the best solution for them, regardless of his organization, he still only sees it from his perspective, so always a grain of salt. But what we are seeing, not just in the last couple of quarters, but really for the last few years, particularly during the pandemic, it's escalated, and it continues to grow, no one is stopping work on the customer experience. But some of the same teams and technologies and approaches that people have really heavily invested in to improve customer experience is shifting to include a lot more on employee experience.

As we've all been remote as we have, as consumers, we are seeing these better experiences, it's really hard to have an amazing experience shopping online or interacting with your Robo Advisor account for your investments, and then going to work and using the worst technology or being stuck to deal with terrible processes, terrible communication channels. So, we're seeing a really increasing push on the need to improve employee experiences to do their job, whether they're directly supporting customers, or whether they're doing internal things, HR, anywhere else.

Because it's becoming essential to retain the teams that you have, people just don't want to, they have the flexibility to work anywhere, because the barriers of geography are kind of breaking down. So, the importance of improving the quote, unquote, customer experience of your employees seems to be always increasing and we're really seeing some exciting changes to how people are supporting their teams across the board.

App, Website or Tool that Art Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business

When asked about online resources that he cannot live without in his business, Art shared that that is a tough one, he would say it's not a glamorous tool by any means but for him, it is probably, he would say any video conferencing. For him, he spent so much time just talking to people, understanding what their objectives are, what their goals are, whether that's his team, whether that's their customers, whether it's just peers in the industry. And if they didn't have access to that, and the ability to still make connections, even when they’re geographically dispersed or kind of on locked down with a pandemic.

He feels like this last couple of years would have felt really isolating, he wouldn't have made the connections and the growth that he’s made personally, professionally with his team. So, there's a lot of other way cooler tools that he uses kind of in with his marketing brand, or his technology brand. But if you took away his ability to just connect with people, see their faces and still build meaningful connections, he doesn't know what he would do. So, he thinks that still to him is the most valuable app.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Art

When asked about books that have had the biggest impact, Art shared that he’s going to give a weird one here and it's just because he consumes a lot of information. A lot of it is articles and long form. But there's a book, when you asked him that there's a book, a professor recommended when he was young, and this is not for everyone to read. But it made a big impact on him just opening his eyes in the numbers way.

So, it's not about CX or UX, but there's a book called the One Two Three…Infinity: Facts and Speculations of Science (Dove Books on Mathematics) by George Gamow. And it was a computer science professor that at the time basically said, “If you can read this and understand this, then I want to work with you on some side projects.” So, it became a motivation for him to just expand what does infinity even mean? And for him, the keener in him to want to get in the good graces of that professor. So, that just had a big impact on him. And his wife actually recently purchased that one for him, because he had talked about it. Something that I had read in my university days.

Then the other book that comes to mind, and he’s just beginning it right now. And he’s had it on his shelf for a long time, someone handed it to him before, it's called The Book of Business Awesome/The Book of Business Unawesome by Scott Stratten. So, that's another book, he can't see the impact it's made on him yet but that's next up that someone has recommended, and he’s going to be reading next.

What Art is Really Excited About Now!

When asked about something that he’s excited about, Art stated that one of the things he’s really excited about, well, he’s always excited about his family. He’s got two kids that are going through transitions of kind of where they are in life. They did their first year away at a sleepaway camp this year, they're in middle school, one of them is in middle school. So, the keeping up with them, his son actually recommended a podcast to him, a business podcast, he's 11 years old, that he’s actually loving.

He’s really excited about the changes of, they're giving him interesting things that are stretching his mind now. So, that's pretty cool. And one of the things, he’s excited about, it's a little cheesy, but they made a big investment at their organization in a communication framework. It's kind of under a selling framework. It's a little plug for the group there called The Value Selling. What he really likes about it is it really gives a framework for how to have conversations, to understand where people want to go, what's stopping them from getting there? And then what they believe the solution would be and how to attach to that.

Now, usually that's used to sell or to do better by your clients and be aligned, he’s really excited about what it's been doing for his organization, for the one on ones. Something he’s wanted to get better at is how does he mentor and provide one on ones and coaching to the team? And using that same framework of them saying, where do I want to go? You want to be promoted? You want to get to this point in your career? Well, what's stopping you? And what do you think you could do to further that, and then being able to have them know where they want to go and support them is putting a lot more direction to the one on ones he’s having.

And he’s really excited about how that's going to make him a better manager, a better leader, and how he’s going to help the people on the team that he directly interacts with get where they are ultimately wanting to be in their lives, because that's what breeds a great culture, a great team, and just great people across the board, whether they stay with them or not. So, he’s really excited about that.

Where Can We Find Art Online

Website – www.daylight.io

LinkedIn – Art Harrison

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Art Uses

When asked if he has a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Art shared that he does and he’s going to overshare a little bit. It's not a famous quote, it just comes from his dad, and he’s the third Art or Arthur, the third, his son is now the fourth. They've been the Harrison family line, they’ve kept that tradition going and just from an early age, his dad would just kind of like no matter what adversity they were in, no matter what they’re going through, he's like, “Don't worry, it would either be intermix, you're either a Harrison or you're an Art, it's going to work out, and it's going to be fine.”

And it's not that he was some wild success, it's just that he really managed stress well, and just knew that life would work out the way that it was supposed to. And it really just embedded in his DNA. And so, whether it's the hardest day, professionally or personally, whether he’s struggling with something, whether he’s excited about something, it's just in there, and it's kind of repeating in his brain all the time that like, it doesn't matter if it's going to work out, he’s going to prevail.

And he would say just to anyone listening, like that was the same philosophy even when he had the new-born babies, he and his wife were stressing about they're not sleeping, he just had that same mantra, it's going to work out, he’s going to figure out what it is that's making this baby upset and he’s going to prevail. And so, that simple phrase of like it's going to work out is what drives him and it makes you be willing to take on any challenge, knowing that at the end of this, there's a solution. It's going to work out even when it seems like it didn't work out, that is it working out, it's still leading you where you needed to be. So, that is the kind of quote or mantra that is always with him.

Me: I love that, amazing. And I think at some point in our lives, we all need to kind of give ourselves those kinds of affirmations. Because life can become overwhelming and daunting and sometimes it does feel like all the doors are closing around us. But if you do have that mindset, as Rhonda Byrne from The Secret says, “Thoughts become things,” then if you believe it's going to work out, it will work out.

Art agreed that it will and it really lets you look differently at the things that seem to be the roadblock or seem to be the setback is that it's still going to work out, he doesn't know how yet, but he then tends to look back at all of those negative points and know that he wouldn't be where he is today if he hadn't been there. So, you change your perspective on everything when you just know that it's working out the way it ideally can. To him it is his superpower because it really does make everything seem possible.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• One Two Three…Infinity: Facts and Speculations of Science (Dove Books on Mathematics) by George Gamow
• The Book of Business Awesome/The Book of Business Unawesome by Scott Stratten

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Big RYG Customer Success Leadership Summit

October 12-13, 2022

Washington DC

Sign Up

Dr. Fred Moss is a holistic Physician, Restorative Coach, Podcaster, Psychiatrist Expert, Witness at Welcome to Humanity with Dr. Fred Moss. Dr. Moss arrived on Earth on March 01, 1958 and from that very second has been earmarked to be a healer. The family he was born into, was in chaos, and in many ways was counting on his arrival to bring health and wellness back into balance. Little Freddy had his hands full and over the next 6 decades, he has made it his business to bring healing to the world around him, not only to his family and friends, but to the community and world at large, what a journey it has been.

Questions

• Could tell us in your own words a little bit about your journey?
• Could you share with us as an organization, maybe one or two things that you can do as leadership in an organization or putting in place some form of programme to support team members where mental health is concerned in order to strengthen the customer experience?
• If there was one thing to do immediately to assist ourselves when we're feeling out of balance. What would you suggest that one thing would be?
• Could you share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business?
• Could you also share with us and I'm sure you've read many, many books across your lifespan, especially in the field that you are in, but maybe one or two that have had a great impact on you, it could be a one that you read a very long time ago, or even one you've read recently, that you'd like to share with our listeners?
• Could you also share our listeners what's one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about, either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people?
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge you'll tend to revert to this quote? It kind of helps to get you back on track if for any reason you get derailed or get off track. Do you have one of those?

Highlights

Dr. Moss’ Journey

Me: I know we read a little bit about your journey. And I didn't read your entire bio. But if you could tell us in your own words a little bit about your journey, I know your bio, the part that I did read did indicate that you have been doing quite a bit of work since you landed on Earth. And so, could you just share with our listeners a little bit about how you got to where you are today?

Dr. Moss shared that it has been a long strange trip. It's been a little over 64 years now and young at heart for sure. And there's lots of work to do. He arrived on that March 01, 1958 with the whole idea of being counted on to bring joy and pleasure and love and reconnection to that family. And for the first couple years, he probably did pretty good until his brothers got annoyed and irritated with him, he had two brothers, still do who 10 and 14 years older than him. And they taught him how to be precocious. They taught him how to read and write and do math, even before he arrived in kindergarten. Because when he arrived there, he was ahead of the class, he was doing things that most of the kindergarteners didn't want to do, he was like interested in flashcards and books and stuff like that.

He was also bored, so he became a class clown, there's nobody in elementary school, no teacher he ever had who certainly ever forgot him as a student. Because what he was really interested in more than anything, he thought school was going to show him how to communicate, he loved the way that his parents and his brothers communicated with each other, he could just watch him from the playpen. And he knew that there was something special in the world of sharing ideas with each other and he really wanted to learn how to do that become a master of communication. But low and behold, elementary school was not a place to learn that and he thought, “Oh, maybe the bigger kids, Junior High.” And when he got there, it was even worse. He thought, “Okay, High School.” and then that would be even worse, all you had to do is sit down and regurgitate what the teacher said, and that they would call you a good student and move you ahead. And he just thought that was so absurd.

Eventually, he went to college and with the whole idea again, he went to the best college he could possibly think because he loved their football helmets and that was a University of Michigan. And he went there and again, was kind of disillusioned with the idea that what he really had to do was just follow what the professor said and say whatever they wanted him to say and then pass, that wasn't open discourse and that's what I really wanted. So, he dropped out of college and he did what any self-respecting American dropout would do in the late 70s. He had boarded a Greyhound bus and went all the way to Berkeley, California so that he could learn, just figuring out who he was. He had a great summer in Berkeley, but realized he didn't have a job and not much of a future.

So, his mom convinced him to come back and try school one more time. He came back, there was a new field that was just growing, you might have heard of it, it's called Computer Science and the only computer that was there in Michigan was happened to be at the University of Michigan. So, it was a two-acre facility, he spent his day and night there, pulling up batch cards like punch cards and then hoping that the batch would run and he did that for a little while until he realized that wasn't going to work, so he dropped out again. This is when the story starts getting interesting because in 1980 when he dropped out, his mom, again convinced him that she should probably get a job. And I thought, yeah, making some money so he could buy a car so he could go around the country and figure out what his life is about made some sense.

So, he started working at a state hospital for adolescent psychiatry, State House Psychiatric Hospital for adolescent boys. And that's where really his journey in some ways with this whole idea of mental health began.

On January 05, 1980, he began that job and he was a communicator, he knew that he could communicate with these kids and then when they communicated and connected as human beings, well, healing took place in all directions, not just for them but for him as well and maybe even for the people around them. Like treating these people like they were just people and not sick kids who are defective or afflicted but just people just like him who don't really know what to do next, and aren't really sure what their next step was, and really just acknowledging them for being human.

He really, really strongly learned that communication and connection was at the heart of all healing of all conditions. The thing he really disrespected though, was the way psychiatry was dealing with these kids. He hated psychiatry, he hated that they would call the psychiatrist and they would come by and interview the child for three seconds. So, they'd say like, “Johnny's up too late.” or “Timmy and Tony got in a fight.” They’d interview the kid for 3 seconds, and then interview them for like 5 seconds and then take out their pen and write an order. And then they have to go haul the kid into the quiet room and hold them down against his will and then fill his hip up with adult grade anti-psychotic injectable medication. And if this puts him out of his misery for the next 12 or 24 hours, they'd somehow call that a success. He found that to be so barbaric and it's still going on in our world today, if you need to know. It's going on every single day in many different hospitals around the world.

But he just decided that communication and connection really were what he wanted to be a stand for. And he went back to school solely to become a psychiatrist so that he could bring communication back to that field because he saw the opportunity that psychiatry had to really make a difference in the world that they did that.

Over the next 13 years, he completed his degree and completed his residency and completed his fellowship. And low and behold, he graduated as a psychiatrist from a great medical school and a great residency. And there he was, the truth is that psychiatry had gone through a significant change at that time and began medicating people. This whole idea of diagnosing and medicating and Biological Psychiatry falls on the heels of a drug called Prozac. And Prozac had been introduced in 1987 while he was in training, and now he too was becoming a psycho pharmacologist. Now, you can guess that there was some soul sacrifice there, there was a massive heart ache because he didn't want to prescribe medicine, he didn't want to diagnose people, he went into the field so he wouldn't have to do that.

But there he was actually living a life that was inconsistent to who he was. And over the next 15 years, he did his best to bring communication there but more and more, he was being contracted and constricted away from the psychiatric field. In 2006, he decided that he would finally start taking people off of medicine, he took some of his low risk people off of medicine, and they just got way better, reliably better. As soon as he took the medicine away, their diagnosis often disappeared. And he thought he was onto something like maybe the medicines actually perpetuate to conditions. Maybe in fact the medicines actually worsen or cause the conditions at times. Now, this made him really angry, and he didn't know exactly how to manage it, but over time, and it's been, what, 15, 16 years since 2006, he’s really learned how to really get respect for not medicating, not diagnosing and then they call him the un-doctor, un-medicated, un-diagnosing, and then un-doctornating people. Really getting that if you're having a miserable time as a human, if you're uncomfortable, anxious, fearful, depressed, sad, confused, scattered, any of those things, it's entirely okay.

And it's part of being a human, to be highly uncomfortable at times, to be miserable at times is okay. That doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. We don't blame a log for burning in the fire, if you put a log into fire, it's going to burn, if you put a human on this world, we're going to be uncomfortable. And we start really looking at that and he’s back to getting the connection is at the heart of all healing.

So, he created a company called Welcome to Humanity in 2015. And that was self-explanatory, all things human are okay. The possibility of seeing all people for who they are and who they're not is okay. The possibility of accepting and even having some compassion and forgiveness for the misery that we all feel is all okay. And they started really communicating and connecting as a healer, instead of as a doctor that he had been prior to that.

After Welcome to Humanity, several other different things have sprouted, there was global madness where he was going to go around the world like Anthony Bourdain, and really see that psychiatry is different and the whole idea of mental health is different in Jamaica. And it's different everywhere. It's like what’s sick in Jamaica isn't the same as what’s sick in California. And so, it can't really be if you have a broken arm in Jamaica, you're going to have that same broken arm if you fly to California, but that's not true of mental health and mental illness.

And so, the idea that it's variable, meaning that it's transformable, meaning that we can alter this whole idea of what mental health and mental illnesses through conversation. Meaning that we can actually make a difference with people without having to put them on a couch 4 times a week or send them to Tibet or India. Or even give them a bunch of ganja, those aren't the only ways to find peace and we can find peace by recognizing that each of us are in this together.

The true voice technology is his most recent finding, after doing the creative eight, the creative eight really took advantage of the art, music, dancing, singing, drama, cooking, writing, gardening, all the creative acts in life can really lead to a reduction of the symptomology. And the Find Your True Voice technology, his most recent book, which he can offer to listeners, actually, is a technology that takes a deep dive into finding our authenticity in the face of any world experience and then speaking our exact truth, like what's really important to us, because you've probably noticed, a lot of people are no longer speaking their truth and they're just saying things that they don't even mean, or not saying things at all, because they're afraid they're going to be dismissed or discounted or censored or cancelled or hurt.

And he thinks in these difficult times in the world, more than anything, we really have to count on people to speak their true voice, because we're not going to be taking care of any of the very major problems in the world like COVID or like climate change, or racism or sex trafficking, or war, or all the many things that have really come forth in the last few years as super problems. Unless we have a conversation going, we're not going to be able to deal with those but the future looks pretty grim if we're not going to be able to deal with those things, it looks like pretty calamitous. And the only way we're going to get there is by really finding a way to communicate together. And that's what he’s a stand for now, as he’s been since the moment he arrived on Earth March 01, 1958.

As an Organization, Programmes that Can Be Put in Place to Support Team Members Where Mental Health is Concerned to Strengthen Customer Experience

Me: Thank you so much for sharing Dr. Moss. Now, mental health is a real thing, I don't think a lot of companies or even countries for that matter, really gives it the attention that it needs and dedication that it requires. Could you share with us as an organization, maybe one or two things that you can do as leadership in an organization or putting in place some form of programme to support team members where mental health is concerned in order to strengthen the customer experience?

Dr. Moss thinks if you're really up to having a healthy workforce, a healthy payroll, people who are really able to stand up for what's important in a customer experience, he thinks the number one thing to really get is that all people really want more than anything is to be heard, to be heard, and to be listened to, to actually be cared for, to be appreciated, to be acknowledged.

So, if you're going to do anything, he thinks to create an atmosphere in your company, or in your corporation or in your small groups, or even in your experience with the customers were the primary goal is to listen intently to what's being said. And not only what's being said with words, but what's being called for, how can you move the needle forward in a progressive way? What is the environment or the circumstances calling on you to present or you to be with including the possibility of saying nothing?

Can you listen for what's being called for to move that conversation forward and provide that creatively? We're all super creative, every one of us, including those of us who think we're not, that's just an old injury when you think you're not. The truth is we're all very creative and we are all listening at our own pace and our own level, and more than delivering what we think is right. And what he’s saying is that more than anything, it's not a matter of speaking, it's a matter of listening to those people who are struggling to say that which is really important to them, whatever way they're doing it. So, he believes that more than anything, the secret ingredient here is definitely listening.

Me: So, we need to listen more because everybody wants to be seen, they want to be felt, they want to be heard. I think it's a process for sure.

Dr. Moss shared that when people disagree with us, we think it's okay to disregard them and dismiss them and unfriend them and never talk to them even if they are our siblings or best friends beforehand. So, these days we're cancelling people out of our worlds because they disagree with us on some certain issues and that's happened to him and it's happened to most people. He’s lost friends in the last couple years and it's really quite painful. What's really here or there then is, listening is an act of occupation, it's not just what you do in between the time you talked and the time you're going to talk next, it's actually having those ears open and being super curious about what that person is saying, or what they're trying to get across in a way that really acknowledges and respects and accepts and maybe even forgives that person for being as confused as they are when they're confused. Because after all, if you haven't noticed, each and every one of us is thoroughly confused, some of us pretend like we're not and going to get it done. But each and every human on this planet is totally confused. Of course, how could you not be, there’s some crap going on out there. Let's be fair about it, those of us who pretend that we're not confused, are almost more confused, they're more confused, they actually think that it's possible not to be confused.

Me: The ones who think they're not confused, they're deluding themselves.

Dr. Moss agreed, exactly. Come on. Let's be real about it.

Suggestion to Assist Ourselves When We’re Feeling Out of Balance

Me: Now, Dr. Moss, if there was one thing to do immediately to assist ourselves when we're feeling out of balance. What would you suggest that one thing would be?

Dr. Moss thinks it's pause. Hold on a second, re configure yourself. Allow yourself to make a mistake, allow yourself to learn, allow yourself to regroup and get curious again, give yourself compassion, forgiveness, acceptance. He guesses you only asked for one thing, and he sees this as one thing. It's like, pause and reset. You can do that multiple times per day, if you want. Pause, reset, pause, reset, it doesn't take very much work.

Me: And I guess the average person is just going and going and going and going and it's like they don't actually take time. I think generally people feel like if they stop, and they're not doing something that their productivity will decrease. But in order for you to be more productive, you really do we need those pauses, don't you?

Dr. Moss agreed yes, you do. He knows how to run like the devil, he’s a doctor. So, they trained him in medical school to be up 24 hours in emergency rooms, and in psychiatry to deal with suicide, and with homicide, and with alcoholism and drug addiction and overdoses and all those things. He knows how to run hard. But the truth is, in those moments where he can get maybe even 5 minutes, let alone 20 minutes. So, just stop and sit or stop and appreciate. No one ever told him he'd be alive forever. And no one definitely ever told him that this life was not without any misery. So, the truth is, there's massive misery, massive overwhelming misery all over the world. There are great reasons for it, it's not in your head, it's very real.

There's nothing wrong with you for being miserable in a miserable world when it's going on, for some reason, we have the capacity to recuperate or to reset ourselves because, have you noticed that some days when you're just so totally spent, like you don't have another ounce of energy left, that later in that same day you might have blissful moments, you might just realize the absolute beauty of life on the same day. That is a gift that came from us on creation and it's extraordinary that this too shall pass still works. Even in this world where calamities are just happenstance, they're just every day, there's shit going on that is just thoroughly and totally unacceptable.

App, Website or Tool that Dr. Moss Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business

When asked about online resource that cannot live without in his business, Dr. Moss shared that he saw that question coming down the pike and he was thinking like, “Where am I right now with that particular question?” And he thinks the cheapest way would be to say something like email or messaging, but we'll go past that. He thinks that Slack is really interesting, although it has flaws. And he thinks that all of the apps, they have significant flaws. He thinks that Google Docs and Dropbox are super interesting, he has no idea what he would do without those two in particular. How would he handle life without Google and Dropbox? There's a lot of his stuff locked up in there, he doesn't even know how to find it.

But he thinks some of the more interesting, newer apps, as he learns about them, he’s 64, so he’s sort of on the back edge, he’s not as quite as savvy as some of the 30 somethings like his son whose birthday is today (July 20^th). But he thinks that some of those new apps are so extraordinary as they come off the press and the things they do. Some of these apps, they just do amazing things. But he thinks ultimately, the one he can't live without is he'd have to say, unfortunately, is through Google Suite.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Dr. Moss

When asked about books that have an impact, Dr. Moss shared that he likes spiritual books. He can't go very far without saying sort of like The Torah, The Talmud, The Mission, or the basic Old Testament Jewish texts, he loves those. He’s not reading them this very moment, but the truth is, when he does, his whole life gets re-centered. So, it's hard to not pay attention to those books.

The books recently that he’s really been enjoying, he’s so excited about are by Alan Watts. He thinks Alan Watts is so brilliant, and just re centers all of this nonsense so easily in 10 and 15 minutes snippets. So, you can read little chapters, it's generally readable. And he just takes on this whole idea that time is just an illusion, or space is just an illusion, or that all we really have is now and he does it in a way that he finds to be so entertaining and refreshing.

Now, Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, he’s sure other people have answered that question, has answered it with that book. He thinks it's a fine book and everything, he doesn't know that it's life changing book in his life. For some people, it really is. But once he gets past the Torah, then he has to get to what he’s reading now. He’s got so many books open in his living room. He has like 40 books that are open in his living room right now that he’s like almost done with or partially through and he just keeps reading. He just pulled off “To Kill a Mockingbird,” he’s like, “Oh, yeah, someday I'm going to read To Kill a Mockingbird, because I understand that that's going to really change my life.” But he’s got like 23 books to read before he gets to that one. And then life goes on.

What Dr. Moss is Really Excited About Now!

When asked about something that he’s excited about, Dr. Moss stated that that's a great question. He’s working on both with himself and with his people and the new course that he’s developed is called The True Voice Course. And it's about your voice mattering. Basically, it's an online course but it's mixed in with a mastermind, you get his two books, you get access to him, and you get access to a community of like-minded individuals who are really out to bring their true voice forward.

He’s graduated over 50 people in his courses to move them from zero to podcasters. So, that's one group of people you get, but you also get people who are really interested in bringing their voice forward. The technology he’s developed is comprehensive and he’s super excited about rolling out that course, you can find it at www.truevoicepodcasting.com and the first 10 people who come into that course are actually going to get it at half price. And that's a significant savings. And they really just want those people to come in, take the course, let them know what works and if there's parts of it that are vague, or maybe they overlook so that they can make this course spectacular for everyone. This course is running out, starting this week and next week, so by the time that this airs, it should have a number of people that are in it. He’s super excited about it because it really incorporates his books and his experience right there into a course where he can source people to find that true voice and bring it over to a world that's waiting.

When he says that there's a personal aspect to this, he’s doing the same thing with his wife. He has a wife, a gorgeous, unbelievable, amazing human being who he calls his wife. And they have 3 cats, and they live in a pretty cool house and they're just kind of trying to figure out how to create a relationship every single day. And that's the same thing, using the same technology, because if you're not speaking your true voice, and no one is ever going to know you. And that's the way he is with Alexandra (his wife) as well on the way she is with him, and they bring forth art and communication and creativity like the Creative 8 asked for as well as The True Voice, as well as her own special style, which is through dance and art to really create a relationship that's never been done before. So, those are the two things and they're kind of related and these are special times to be able to have come through this life and still be banging away on things that truly do matter, like human connection.

Me: Now, for those of our listeners that would want to tap into this programme, is it that it is geared towards a particular type of person? Or is it open to anyone regardless of where they are in their life?

Dr. Moss shared that it really is open to anyone. But he thinks what they're really looking for, what they're finding are the people who have felt muted, who feel muffled, who feel fearful, who feel that their voices are not being heard, or that they're not speaking their true voice, and they're eager to do so. Maybe there's a new level of urgency given up all the world issues that we're now experiencing. And these often turn out to be mothers, this often turned out to be mothers on the other side of an empty nest perhaps, or a divorce, or maybe even just mothers who want their children to have the voices. They start realizing that up until now, they've been caring for so many people, but, “What about me? Like, what about the things that really matter to me?” It's the what about me people who are really taking this course by storm, who are like, “Yeah, I forgot how to speak my truth. I want to find my truth. I want to refine my truth. And then I want to deliver that truth.” And podcasting is one spectacular way to do that, it's not the only way, they help people find their voice and then naturally they find when to deliver it and how they're going to deliver it, even if it's just in their family, or if it's on a stage in front of 1000s of people. Either way, it's the same general criteria, they help you take a deep dive to finding that authentic self of yours, rediscovering it, refining it, and then delivering it to the world that really is ready and willing to listen to you.

Where Can We Find Dr. Moss Online

Instagram - @drfredmoss

Facebook - @drfredmoss

LinkedIn – Fred R. Moss, MD

Email – drfred@welcometohumanity.net

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Dr. Moss Uses

When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Dr. Moss stated that there's a couple that come to mind. He used to answer this question with a Rolling Stones, “You can't always get what you want, but you get what you need.” He thinks that's a sweet quote. He thinks there's something else, there's, “This too shall pass.” That is a beautiful quote. And that we are spiritual beings living a human experience, there's something very beautiful about that too. He thinks that we are spiritual beings living a human experience can be very helpful as well, getting us centered into the here and now and getting that calamities and disasters and all those things that we hate, no one ever said that wasn’t going to be part of this live. So, this idea of really listening in order to learn seems like it comes very easily from this notion that we are spiritual beings living a human experience.

Me: So, we'll have those two, the Rolling Stones, and this too shall pass. Really appreciate that. Now, thank you, again, Dr. Moss, for taking time out of your very busy day to hop on this podcast with us and share all of this awesome content on what you are doing, how you are trying to help people to have more real conversations to really get their message out there and just to be their most authentic and true self, it really was a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much.

Dr. Moss shared that it’s his pleasure. And thanks for working through all the all the technological challenges, it really was a beautiful conversation, and he appreciates Yanique and really to Yanique and her listeners. This isn't a pitch for his product, he has a product, it's true. But it's not about that, these are difficult, urgent, real times. And what he really wants people to get is, if you don't speak, no one will ever hear you and if you don't speak your true voice, no one will ever know you. He has a capacity to source people to actually find that true voice and whether you use him or someone else, he’s just really, really, really is interested in people who are ready to put their foot down and get that yeah, in what's left of this short life, even if it's 10, 20, 40, 60 years from now, you want to get heard, you want to be loved, you want to be appreciated. Okay, then let's start really getting with who you really are and making that happen. And whatever it takes to do that he implores the listeners and yourself to really step up because that's all that's left to do as far as he sees.

Me: Dr. Moss, so you have a gift for our listeners, please go ahead and share.

Dr. Moss shared that he has a gift, he wrote a book this year that he’s really proud of and it takes a deeper dive into this whole notion of how this technology works. He knows the title of the book will surprise the audience, it's called Find Your True Voice and he’s going to send the actual book to the listeners if they just sign up for the book, and you can find that at www.findyourtruevoicebook.com. And he'll send you a copy. And after that, he just want to hear what did you think of that book? Is there something there that can move you forward? Or where is it that this book or his talk is valuable? Because he’s super interested in delivering talks, and having people really get that if we don't speak well….the future looks pretty grim.

And if we do speak, we can end all wars. And that's what that book is about really finding a true voice and it's simple to read, fun to read, fun to write, and he invites listeners to sign up for a free copy.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• Find Your True Voice by Dr. Fred Moss
• Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Laura Stewart is the Vice President of Canada's Top Real Estate firm, REC Canada. Having spent the last 8 years helping over 1,200 investors build out their real estate portfolios, Laura has turned her attention to helping other Real Estate Agents achieve top tier success through content creation. Now the owner and operator of From the Ground up Media (FTGU). Her company helps realtors produce, edit, and post content on social media with the objective of helping them build a community to do more deals.

Questions

• We always like to give our guests an opportunity to share in their own words a little bit about their journey and how they got to where they are today.
• Could you tell us a little bit about what your company From the Ground up Media does? And how is it that you're able to help real estate agents in this capacity?
• Could you share with our listeners, maybe I would say two to three things or, let's say, activities, or maybe characteristics that are critical for you to be successful as a real estate agent on social media.
• Now, could you also share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business?
• Could you also share with us maybe one or two books that have had the biggest impact on you, it could be a book that you read a very long time ago, or even one that you read recently, but it still has a great impact on you.
• Could you share with us maybe one or two things that you do personally to keep yourself motivated that may spiral a little bit of spark or thought-provoking things in someone's mind as to how maybe they could tweak or even modify their skills in motivation?
• Now, could you also share with us maybe one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about, either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote, it kind of helps to get you back on track if for any reason you got derailed?

Highlights

Laura’s Journey

Me: So, Laura, even though we do read your bio, which kind of gives a little synopsis of who you are, we always like to give our guests an opportunity to share in their own words a little bit about their journey and how they got to where they are today. So, could you share that with our audience?

Laura shared that she'll try and keep it as short as she can because she thinks she has a fairly unique kind of background, in that she didn't know she was wanting to be a salesperson. She didn't know she wanted to get into real estate when she was a younger person. She really kind of took the lead of a Guidance Counsellor who said to her if she wanted to be successful in life, she needs to get into science. Why was that the narrative at the time, she’s not sure.

But she was like, of course, she wants to be successful. So, you're an adult, and she’s going to take your word for it. So, she went to school for nutrition, and learned pretty quickly on that that was just not going to be her lifelong journey. She did complete the programme and after that she kind of dabbled in the fashion world. She loves fashion, she loves helping her friends and family put together outfits. And she thought, well, this might be something that's interesting.

So, she started working at one of Canada's luxury retailers in their buying department, as a junior buyer, like intern at the time just to kind of get her feet wet. So, started right at the bottom from there. She was cleaning the kitchen and doing all the nitty gritty work that no one else wanted to do. It was pretty quickly on there that she realized, you know what she'd rather be able to buy clothes at these stores than actually be a buyer for these stores. And she’s doing air quotes right now, which you can't of course see. But because, at some point, you kind of realize like, if she’s going to be going up the corporate chain, she’s still not going to amount to the type of success that she’s looking for.

So, she went back to school to do her MBA and it was then that she kind of had this concept of, okay, well, Real Estate Agents are quasi entrepreneurs, particularly the good ones, they get to do everything from running their own finances, their own marketing, and really building their own team and business the way they wanted it. And so that's kind of how she got her foot in the door from a eal estate perspective.

What Your Company From the Ground up Media does – How is it That You’re Able to Help Real Estate Agents in This Capacity

Me: Now, your company that you're currently operating for 8 years as your bio had indicated, is called From the Ground Up Media. Could you tell us a little bit about what your company does? And how is it that you're able to help Real Estate Agents in this capacity?

Laura clarified that she’s been a real estate agent with a company called REC Canada for 8 years. So, she’s been actively selling real estate for 8 years, the media company kind of came out of the real estate company only 14 or 15 months ago. How that kind of came about was in 2017, one of the owners of the real estate company, unfortunately passed away fairly tragically. And he was really the face of the company. He was the personal brand that at the top of the funnel, kind of bringing in all the leads and the rest of them were kind of working those deals.

So, at that point, without him they were kind of looking to each other like, “Uh-Oh, what are we going to do now? Like, we have no one to really run this thing.” It was then when the group of them kind of went all in on her business partner, his name is Jas Takhar, and said, “Look, we want you to be the face of the company. And let's help bring us into, this would have been 2018 now. There's these things called podcasts going around, why don't we start a podcast where we are essentially answering all of the frequently asked questions that we get from buyers, sellers or investors.” And that's really where the content began just with an audio only podcast, similar to what you're doing here today. And that kind of spiralled over time.

So, they had some pretty heavy hitters on the podcast just out of sheer luck and tenacity of following up with the right people enough times. So, Ryan Serhant, who is on Million Dollar Listing, he said yes to doing their podcast and that's when they realized, “Oh shoot, I think we need to put this on camera.”

That was when the light bulb really went off because they realize okay, now that they have video footage of the podcast, they can now put that on YouTube, they can put the audio on all the audio platforms. And then what they can do with the full YouTube video is really slice and dice it to add micro content to all of their social media channels. And that kind of became their easy and quick and dirty way of being omnipresent everywhere without doing additional work, because they were full time real estate agents.

And when you when you do that enough, they run a fairly successful business in Canada that other Real Estate Agents are looking to them saying, “Well, what are these guys doing that's allowing them to be successful?” And so, they would meet with a lot of real estate agents who would say, “I want to do what you're doing, how did you do it?” And they come from the notion of, the pie is big enough, there's more than enough business to go around and they would explain to everybody, “Well, this is how we're doing the media. And this is who you could hire, if you wanted to do it on your own, this is how you could do it on your own.”

And they would follow up with some of those agents in a couple months. And they really hadn't executed on anything. And so, that kind of starts to make you look at maybe there's an opportunity here where they could be the service provider for these people. And that is what sparked the idea From the Ground up Media where they predominantly help real estate agents, small business owners work toward building an online personal presence through things like podcasts and webinars and things like that.

Characteristics That are Critical for you to be Successful as a Real Estate Agent on Social Media

Me: Now, I like the idea and definitely the practical strategy that you have employed for From the Ground Up Media, could you share with our listeners, maybe I would say two to three things or, let's say, activities, or maybe characteristics that are critical for you to be successful as a Real Estate Agent on social media.

Laura shared that first and foremost, the one characteristic that you really need to deploy is the utmost Patience. So, they've been doing this since 2018, very, very consistently, particularly for her business partner as she was helping him, they use him as the guinea pig and then they filter it all out and kind of all borrow the same tactics for themselves. And the reason why she says patience is because now that she’s sat with a number of real estate agents who come to her and say, “I want to be on Tik Tok, and I want to be on Instagram.” They'll do it for a couple months, and their motivation will kind of get them there. But when they start to see that there's really not much traction, or that it's difficult, or that a client came to them and she was taking all their time. The first thing to kind of drop is the media and the content creation. And that's really the last thing that should be dropping, she thinks right now they're seeing it particularly with this, again, air quotes recession that we're seeing, a lot of people are saying, well, I'm taking off now, I'm going to go on vacation, there's no business to be done.

Now is when you need to double down, this is the time where you can actually gain that market share that you've been looking for, simply by being the educator. And so, she thinks patience is very, very important. She’s been doing social media now for quite some time, consistently, every single day and it's a grind. There are some days where you think you're going to promote a piece of content, and it's going to go viral, and it's crickets. And there's sometimes where you're asking for feedback from people and you're asking them to comment, and there's no engagement. And that's kind of the name of the game. So, she thinks patience is super important.

She also thinks Consistency is very important. So, she’s learned this the hard way, where she hasn't set up like a schedule for herself and she kind of do a post here and a post there. It really helps, particularly if you're like her to see it on a piece of paper like, “Okay, how many pieces of content should I be filming this week?” And really just hit that goal. Don't worry about the, “Oh, my gosh, this seems so overwhelming, because I need to do 400 posts a year.”

And in fact, it should be more than that. Just focus day by day, “Did I do my one post today?” And being consistent is more important than any perfect post. And she says that because she hears people say, “Well, my hair doesn't look good. The lighting is not good. My camera's not good. The angles, not good. I'm sick today and my nose is a bit nasally.” It doesn't matter. What matters is that you're putting in the reps, you're doing it every day because you really have no idea what the algorithm or what people are going to enjoy and like about you.

So, if you spend an entire week just to make one 60 second video for Instagram reels, and it flops, you're going to be so disheartened. But if you take only five minutes every day to do one and it's okay content, and you get enough of those reps and eventually you're going to hit somebody and you're going to start to build that community over time. So definitely, consistency is a major one.

Lastly and perhaps most importantly, people need to kind of Check Their Ego at the Door. It is overwhelming and it can be nerve wracking to put yourself out there. And that is the name of the game, like you're doing something that a lot of people are just simply not willing to do. We can't all be the most beautiful people in the world, we can't all have the best voice. Or maybe some of us don't even have the knack for writing simple captions in our Instagram feed.

So, understand that no one expects to be perfect. No one expects you to come out of the gates being perfect or professional content creator like all the influencers that you see online, they expect you to kind of hack your way through it and say ums and ahs. How many times have she said, um, or had to start her conversation a little bit differently with today? She never said let's stop the recording and start over, she just kept moving with it.

And so, once people kind of get over their insecurities, and recognizing that it truly is an insecurity, people will say, “Well, I want it to be perfect.” Your desire for it to be perfect is really just you saying, “I'm scared of being judged by people.” And she thinks once you kind of understand where it's coming from, that it is coming from fear, that's when you can say, “Okay, now how am I going to work around this? How am I going to get through this?”

And sometimes it's as simple as like posting it and then turning it off and not going back for a little bit just so you don't feel disheartened, because it is disheartening. You're not going to get all the traction that you want right off the bat and it can hurt, we're all human. She totally understands it. She gets hurt but she still does it anyways. And she thinks that's super, super important.

Me: Love it. All right. So, Patience, Consistency and Check that Ego at the Door. I love it. All right, awesome. Thank you for sharing, Laura.

App, Website or Tool that Laura Absolutely Can’t Live Without in Her Business

When asked about online resource that she cannot live without in her business, Laura shared that right now she actually uses a great online resource, which is called Answer Socrates. And that allows you to go in and really type in any type of industry or topic that you want and what it will generate for you is the list of frequently asked questions in around that topic. So again, a lot of real estate agents will say, “Okay, look, I know I have to be consistent, I got the right camera, or I got my phone, or I finally created a Tik Tok account. But now what am I supposed to talk about?” And just knowing that all the topics are there on Answer Socrates.

So, let's say you type in real estate, you're going to get a list of 100 topics that people are asking. So, it really kind of pulls from like Google and what people are looking for on Google, when they say like, is the bubble going to burst? Is there a crash coming? Should I sell all my property during a recession? And now it's up to you to answer those questions.

Ultimately, she does feel that most of those questions will come from simply phone calls and checking your email like anytime you're working with a client, you're going to get a question, “Well, how much of a deposit should I put down? What should I make the irrevocable date around, for example, on the contract, what should be my marketing strategy for selling my home?” All those questions that you get and you answer so you do know the answers to them, you should just turn the camera on, turn it on selfie mode, and record your answer to those people. She thinks that's a great, great place to get started.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Laura

When asked about books that have had the biggest impact, Laura stated that that’s a great question. She’s a pretty avid reader, she probably read 15 to 20 books every single year. And sometimes she'll read the same book over. Just recently she finished reading for the second time, Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones by James Clear, people talk about this book all the time, it's a great book. She really thinks it just resonates with her because at the end of the day, everything comes down to just you doing again, something consistently. And she really try to use that in all facets of her life, not just business, but her workouts. Like today, she didn't work out as hard as she did yesterday, but she still got her ass there. And so, she thinks that's super important and if you really look at life from that lens, you're going to recognize that it's about like small incremental growth.

So, being 1% better today than perhaps you were yesterday. And it doesn't look like much, right? It's kind of like, “Well, that doesn't sound fun. I want 20% growth in a day." But that's just not the way it works. And she thinks when people start to look for those big, big gross, that's where they get burnt out, that's where they get excited and their motivation gets them through the first couple months to do something but then it falls by the wayside because they've gone too hard at the gates. She would rather you let's say we're talking about content creation. She would rather you promise yourself to do one video a week versus saying you're going to do something three times a day when you've done zero previously, like let's build up those reps and build toward it.

The second book and probably the most influential book is by Jack Canfield The Success Principles™ - 10^th Anniversary Edition: How to Get from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be, that was the kind of the first book that she read that was really about mindset. And it kind of got her into the personal development, self-help space of books. It's a big, big read and it's pretty thick. But the book starts off at the beginning was saying, everything's your fault and once you kind of recognize that it's on you, everything that's wrong in your life, all the problems that you're having are all your fault. And once you kind of accept that that's the case, it really puts the power in your hands to change it. She thinks where a lot of anxiety particularly for herself comes from is when she feels helpless, and she feels hopeless about making any change. And trust, she don't do this like every time something goes wrong in her life, this isn't her automatic response. But if she eventually do get to a place where she says, “Okay, I can make a change, it might be a small change, and might be, it might even just be thinking, look, I can't change that person, but I can change how I react to that person.” That's certainly very, very well in the last couple years. So, she would say those two books are a must, must read.

How Laura Keeps Motivated

Me: Now, a big part of what you've been talking about Laura as we've started this podcast, we've covered quite a few different characteristics or traits in order for you to be successful. I think it's important also, like, I liked the fact that you mentioned consistency as it related to the different characteristics that you would need to employ in order to be successful as a real estate agent, especially from a social media perspective. But sometimes it's hard to find the motivation, as you had mentioned, to be consistent. So, could you share with us maybe one or two things that you do personally to keep yourself motivated that may spiral a little bit of spark or thought-provoking things in someone's mind as to how maybe they could tweak or even modify their skills in motivation?

Laura shared that we're all human, life is hard and it gets tough. And when markets change, and things shift, that's when you start to say, “Oh, my gosh, maybe I wasn't built for this. Or maybe I've lost my touch.” whatever it is. And she thinks real estate agents have it pretty hard, because they're always living pay check to pay check, you're only as good as your next deal, right? It's a very competitive market, particularly in the GTA, there's over 70,000 real estate agents that they're competing with on a daily basis. For her, what's really helped get over those tough times, is the fact that she joined a team and a team is what held her accountable.

So, there are days where she doesn't feel like getting out of bed, there are days where she sees an email from a client, and she can hardly emotionally deal with it because there's so much pressure and so much stretch, and we're talking about people's biggest purchases of their lifetime. So, understandably, they're emotional. But that emotion sometimes is displaced and it's put on you. And it's up to you as a real estate agent to calm the waters and calm everybody. And so, she thinks having a team of people who are there to support you when you're down, it's rare. So, they have 54 agents on their team, but the core, core group on their team is six of them, it's rare that all six of them are going to be in a really low place at the same time, don't think that's actually ever happened. And they actually went through, again, a tragic death on the team. One person came in and they were in a good mood, and then the other person came in and they weren't in a good mood, but it's the good mood people to help bring up the other people.

And she thinks if you surround yourself with people like that, particularly like minded positive people, you're going to get out of that rut a little bit quicker. The worst thing she thinks you could do as a real estate agent is stay home on those days where you don't feel like it because that one day becomes two days, becomes three days.

And before you know it, you've let a whole month go by and you haven't transacted anything, you haven't even made a single phone call. There's something about being in an environment that's competitive, seeing other people make phone calls, and seeing other people do deals and not to take it personally or emotionally on yourself saying, “Well, what's wrong with me?”

But instead to use them to fuel your fire, use other people to give you that strength and that courage to just pick up the phone and even if it's just you saying, “I'm going to make one phone call today.” , you're doing 1% better than you were doing yesterday, when made zero phone calls. And so, surrounding yourself with like-minded people and people who want to see you win and everyone's in it together, she thinks is super, super helpful. So that would be her tip, particularly for new agents who have never been in the business before and who aren't sure how to navigate all the cycles of the market, being on a team can certainly help with that.

What Laura is Really Excited About Now!

When asked about something that she’s excited about, Laura shared that they have an incredible product that they're putting out for From the Ground up Media. And she thinks in entrepreneurship, it's interesting, she thought they would take everything that they had learned on the real estate side, they were doing well on that side. And so, it would be easy for them to kind of transition and start a new company and do well on that side. She was certainly wrong in that regard. They've made so many mistakes at times, because they're learning a new role. And not all skills are necessarily transferable. But they've now come up with a great product that she thinks will help a lot.

They're calling it The Immersion Programme. They haven't even started it yet, the first one is starting in August. So really, what it's about is having real estate agents. Because again, they hear this a lot saying, “Oh, man, I wish I could be a fly on the wall in your office.” So, they have a fairly big space in their office and real estate agents will come back by and say like, “How is it that you guys are doing deals, or there's always an energy back there.” And so, they're going to actually have them come in and sit with them and watch what they do. They're going to show them what their scripts are to people, they're going to show them that. They just recently came up with the idea of making 3000 phone calls in the next 30 days. Because they know with the market the way it is, they're going to have to make that many more phone calls just to get a single deal.

And so, they're hoping that those 3000 phone calls turn into something, of course, but understand that it's not the same market that they're talking about, like people used to make one phone call and be able to do a deal. Maybe not one phone call, but 100 phone calls and do a deal. Now we're talking about 3000 phone calls just to do a handful of deals. And they want people to really see what it takes and to give them the okay in between phone calls, someone asked her a great question on that phone call and she’s going to do some social media content around it. So, she’s also simultaneously building her social media presence.

And so, she thinks when people really get to see how they kind of organize and schedule their days, organize their phone calls, organize their mindsets all around it, she thinks that will be really valuable and hopefully, it's valuable enough that people can actually take that information with them and then do something about it. Nothing's more disheartening than having conversations like this one, like on a podcast and people listening to it saying, “Oh, that's a great idea. I'm going to use that for myself.” But guess what happens Yanique, no one does anything, they go home and life happens, they get an email, they get tired, they go on vacation, whatever it is, and then they forget the very thing that they were super, super excited about. And so, they're actually hoping that by being with them for two, three weeks at a time, that they're really going to take on the persona and not just kind of be lip service. So, that's what she’s super excited about.

Where Can We Find Laura Online

Me: Now, Laura, we would have had quite a few persons that would have listened to this episode once it’s published and so they would have listened to it, tapped into all of this awesome content that we've just discussed, and they would like to connect with you online. Where can they find you online?

Instagram - @laurastewartto

TikTok – @laurastewartto

LinkedIn - @laurastewartto

Twitter - @laurastewartto

Website – www.ftgumedia.com

Podcast - https://www.youtube.com/ftgumedia

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Laura Uses

Me: Now, Laura, before we wrap our interviews up, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote, it kind of helps to get you back on track if for any reason you got derailed.

When asked about a quote or saying that she tends to revert to, Laura shared that something she'd seem to tell herself again and again and again, it changes in times, you see a good quote and then in the email and you think about that for a while, but she would say the one that continuously usually comes back to her, quote wise is, “She believed she could, so she did.” She believes so much in the power of the mind, in positive thinking. And again, she’s not saying this because she’s positive all the time. In fact, her and her team right now they have a funny little game that they're playing where anytime someone complains, they put $10 in a jar. So, they just started it this morning, and guess who's already complained once today? Her, so she’s already losing the battle.

So, it's not to say that she has it all figured out but whenever she’s tapped into the belief that she’s capable of doing something, and she’s known that from the time she was a little kid, she was always the shortest, smallest kid and she was overlooked often in sports. And for some reason, she was actually really, really good at running and sprinting, even high jump. And people would always say like, “How are you so fast?” She would say, “Well, I just keep telling myself to run faster.” It's a choice. Sometimes things are choices that we make and it's about recognizing all the programming that's happened in our lives to put us in these positions, and then try to out think that and try to take those barriers down over time. So, if she believes she can, she will, and every day she has to kind of keep telling herself that because she gets down like everybody else. And like she said, whenever she truly feels it in her gut that she can do something, she’s usually succeeded. So, it's done well for her.

Me: Very good. Very good. I like that. It's funny that you mentioned you believe you could, and you would, and you did. And the mindset, the mind is so, so powerful, and you are so true and correct in terms of surrounding yourself with people who will believe in you and people who will cheer you on, and vote for your success. And people who are positive minded and don't necessarily always say woe is me and they're always thinking negatively, because everything starts in the mind. So, I am 150%, behind everything you just said. And I hope our listeners really got some value out of what you shared today. I surely did. And I really appreciate you taking the time out of your very busy day, because I can imagine that you're trying to make 3000 telephone calls for the month, this obviously is not helping you towards that goal.

Laura shared that she will always work a little bit longer. But at the end of the day, she believes in this so much, she believes in women in business, getting their voice out there so much. So, it's actually an absolute pleasure for her to be on the show. She really appreciate Yanique taking the time to have her here today. It’s just her point of view, she might be right, she might be wrong and it might resonate with some. But that's okay. This is her story, this is her journey and this is kind of where she’s at right now. And so, she really appreciates Yanique allowing her to share it with the listeners.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones by James Clear
• The Success Principles™ - 10^TH Anniversary Edition: How to Get from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be by Jack Canfield

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Matt Swain is a recognized Customer Communications Industry Thought Leader. From delivering keynotes around the world to defining best practices, hundreds of well-known companies have relied on Matt’s expertise and research for their current and future omni-channel communication initiatives.

As Managing Director and Practice Lead for a Broadridge Communications Consulting, Matt brings in valuable market research and consulting expertise to clients relative to benchmarking, as well as for communication strategy, design and execution across print and digital channels.

Prior to joining Broadridge, Matt spent more than a decade at Keypoint Intelligence - InfoTrends, where he was a member of the senior management team with global responsibility for business development and customer communications advisory services. Matt is a graduate of Rochester Institute of Technology and holds a Master's degree in print media.

Questions

• We always like to give our guests the opportunity to share in their own words, a little bit about their journey. How did you get to where you are today?
• The fourth annual CX and communication survey that your company had done, where you studied 3000 North American consumers, highlighting some of the major points and gaps in the customer experience two years into the pandemic. Could you tell us a little bit about the survey and some of the results that that survey created?
• What are some of the most interesting research that you have seen are conducted in the customer experience space, and could you share with us also maybe what are some of the things that have surprised you the most in that research?
• Now as it relates to personalization, the report says 65% of consumers would prefer to receive fewer, more tailored communications through their preferred channel. What has your research shown in terms of, do you still find companies all over the place?
• So, you said that consumers were looking for a more engaging digital experience, could you share with us maybe one or two things that you think a company could employ or put in place to make their digital experience more engaging?
• What are your thoughts on organizations, because digital, it's been accelerated because organizations who weren't even fully digital or were looking to put digital as part of their strategy definitely had to do some quick acceleration because of the fact that we're all stuck at home. How do they bridge that gap? Because people I think still want human interaction?
• Could you share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business?
• Can you also share with us what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about, either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people?
• How can listeners find you online?
• Do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get overwhelmed or challenge? And the quote kind of helps to get you back on track or just get you back refocused.

Highlights

Matt’s Journey

Matt stated that he was listening to that bio and he was thinking, he actually didn't realize Yanique read the whole thing. So, thank you for doing that. As where you ended was that he holds a Master's in print media and that's a very specific degree, especially for a master's degree. And many of the people that went through that programme, were going back to run print operations, they might have had a family business or otherwise.

And he was actually interested in print as one of the media channels that we now use to communicate. And so, actually, he did his Master's Thesis on the shifting spend of companies across different media. So, print was a starting point for him but he spends a lot of time now helping clients transition from print to digital communications and look specifically at how to create better experiences with the communications that they send.

The fourth annual CX and Communication Survey Results Highlighting Major Points and Gaps in the Customer Experience 2 Years into the Pandemic

Me: Now, in preparing for this interview, I was looking at the fourth annual CX and communications survey that your company had done, where you studied 3000 North American consumers, highlighting some of the major points and gaps in the customer experience two years into the pandemic. Could you tell us a little bit about the survey and some of the results that the survey created?

Matt shared that this was a passion project of his when he first started it, which was in 2019 and he has a really strong marketing and support team that helps execute on it. And what's really been interesting watching the data over the last four years of conducting the research is, there have been some notable shifts, specifically relative to customer experience. So, for instance, in 2019, they found that 35% of consumers thought that most of the companies they did business with needed to improve the experiences they provide. So, let's say you know, roughly one in three had that position.

In 2022 now that we've gone through, we're well into a pandemic, depending on which way you look at it, they now find that 65% of consumers, so an increase of 30 percentage points, 65% of consumers think that most of the companies they do business with need to improve the experiences they provide. And that is quite a jarring shift from his perspective.

And he thinks it speaks to the increased expectation that we as consumers have on the companies that we do business with, but also it shows a separation of the leaders from the rest of the pack when it comes to customer service and customer experience.

Research Done in the Customer Experience Space

Me: Very true. And so, a big part, we’re all going through the pandemic, as you said, I guess it depends on how people want to look on it. But what are some of the most interesting research that you have seen are conducted in the customer experience space, and could you share with us also maybe what are some of the things that have surprised you the most in that research?

Matt shared that the research covers customer experience, but then also goes into specifics around what consumers are looking for from the companies they do business with. So, they found a lot of trending data around customer service, wanting better experiences when they needed that service experience. And at the same time, they're also asking for the use of technology, AI, chatbots to be a first line of defence to answer easy questions. And he thinks this is actually tripping a lot of companies up because there's technology out there that can reduce the cost to service a customer.

But the challenge is that companies are becoming too reliant on the technology, and it's resulting in reduced customer satisfaction, because they're not getting flipped to a live agent when they should be in that process.

So, a lot of the negative feedback that they see in the research is that people are looking for a sense of humanity or empathy, or “Let me speak to the Operator or make sure that I can understand the person that I speak to.”

And he thinks that that component is so critical, when you think about where somebody is in the journey when they need to contact you, there's usually some challenge in the communications that you've sent, or they're dealing with something very personal, and they need to be serviced in a more personal way. And so, it's a really delicate balance.

So, they look at the impact from a customer service perspective of new technology it being incorporated into that journey. But then they're also stepping back and saying, “Well, why did that person had to have to reach out in the first place?”

So again, through his lens, from a communication standpoint, it is, “Well, if you sent a bill or a statement to your customer…..

Was it summarized?

Was it easy to understand?

Was it written in plain language?

Did it have relevant content?”

Because ultimately, what they're hoping that they can help their clients get to is a very seamless experience and that they send a communication whether it's in print, or digitally, and the recipient can quickly digest the information and understand what action they need to take, review my account, pay a bill, sign a waiver, whatever that next step is, that's what they're hoping that they're going to be able to do efficiently and hopefully reduce that aspect of call centre volume.

Personalization – Consumers Prefer Fewer, More Tailored Communication Through Their Preferred Channel

Me: Agreed. Now, in the survey that was done, you focused on customer experience omni-channel approach personalization. Now as it relates to personalization, the report says 65% of consumers would prefer to receive fewer, more tailored communications through their preferred channel. What has your research shown in terms of, do you still find companies all over the place? Or are they more taking a more centralized approach?

Because I do agree, I think it's really great if you could generally get everything in one place instead of you're looking up information here but that information that’s located on that platform is not located on this one, is just like you're all over the place.

Matt stated that there's another aspect to that, which is who are the 30 something percent of people that don't want that right?

From a personalization standpoint, actually specific to that, they do find people that want to remain somewhat anonymous digitally and they don't want companies to use their personal data in any other way than they should be using. And they actually asked a separate question around sharing of personal data, so additional data that you as a company don't need, but would the consumer provide it to you if it enhance their experience, created a better experience?

And they found that about half of Gen Z and Millennial respondents said that they would be willing to provide that and that dropped off for a Gen X and baby boomer audience that was less willing to provide incremental information.

Going back to Yanique’s original question around centralization. He thinks they find one of the biggest challenges in a lot of their clients, especially their larger clients is they've grown through acquisitions, they have different lines, each line of business has its own underlying systems. And each head of the business might kind of operate their own fiefdom to some extent, which from a business owner perspective, can be advantageous or easier.

But from a consumer or investor or recipient perspective, that can be really painful because he’s having to log into different systems, or he doesn't have a total view of his relationship with that company in one centralized location.

And he thinks that is an area that really needs to be addressed. But it comes back to the underlying systems that the people, the processes and the technology supporting that ecosystem that needs to be simplified and addressed before you can deliver on that better experience that the consumer is asking for.

Me: Agreed. Sometimes I think organizations take simple and make it complex when it really should just be so easy. And I'll give you an example. I'm currently doing some market research for a client and in the midst in the market research training that we did with persons yesterday, we forgot to ask them if any of them were existing customers of that particular company. So, I kind of just wanted to send out a quick google form to capture that information so we had it on file. And so, we jump on Google Forms simply asking one question, and I literally spent like probably about 15 minutes, just trying to Google, how do you get multiple responses in a Google form?

And there was like, no clear answer, because it has multiple choice, but then when we did the test, and we clicked on it, we realized that the respondent would only be able to select one answer. And there may be cases where they are a customer of the company, but they're not a customer of all business lines.

And so, there are three business lines that we're doing the market research for, and we just wanted to find out if these persons were one customer of a business line, or no customer, or multiple customers have a business line. And it took me so long to find it.

And I said to myself, Google usually makes things so simple. Why in their form did I have to do so much digging to figure out that instead of selecting multiple choice, I should have selected checkbox, because checkbox acts like a multiple choice, but it allows you to select multiple responses or answers. And that came to mind a while ago, just because of what you said.

I find that sometimes we think the technology is there to help us, it's not supposed to be rocket science, I'm not supposed to be trying to figure out, okay, where do I find this information.

It should be there, quick and easy, either in settings or as a drop down so that you can know that that's an option that you can exercise on us. Would you not agree?

Matt shared that we would and he thinks the irony, there is part of ensuring that you've delivered on that better experience is doing that voice of customer that surveying much like you would use the Google Form to do surveying of your audience, right?

So, they find that often where, again, through his lens they’ll work with a client and say, let's conduct some voice of customer research and they use a platform where they'll enable a customer of theirs to go in and navigate their online account. And they'll say one of the common prompts is navigate to your most recent statement.

And it's really interesting to watch people try to find that statement and it's usually in a drop down, the third or fourth drop down over which isn't really that intuitive to know that a statement is going to be the eighth line on the drop down. And it's one of those where for those people that were building it, they know exactly where it is because that's how they built it and that's the approach they took. But for the consumer to navigate to it, that helps expose may be an opportunity to improve or streamline that experience for consumers that are looking to get access to that document.

Me: Yeah, I agreed. Totally agree. I guess as you said, that's why it's important to test it because then you get to see multiple approaches as to how different people will navigate on that platform. In customer service, we have this thing, this example that we use that we normally say, a school or a university, they basically wanted to see what the path was of the students as they were walking on the campus. And so, they waited until it snowed, and then they kind of watched people's pattern to see where they walked and that's what they use as a guide to make that the actual pathway.

Because you might create a situation or a building where you've created a pathway for people to walk but maybe that's not where they naturally gravitate to walk. And so, if you look on it from an online perspective, if someone goes on a site, maybe because of how they're trained, because of other platforms that they've used, or just genuine human interaction or intuition, they may go to the right of the page, or to the top of the page thinking that's where they're going to find that particular item. But maybe that's not where it's supposed to be. And if you look at the pattern of how people operate, it would indicate to you if the structure that you're putting in place is really the best place to place that.

Are people going to be able to find it easily?

Is it going to be frustrating for them?

Are they going to have to be reaching out to your support team to find out how to get that information?

How easy is it for them to find this information, and it should be easy enough that I think a five or six year old should be able to find it.

Matt shared that he loves the analogy with the snow on the surface, he immediately goes to that visual that we've all seen where you see the trampled trodden and dirt path that cuts the corner, the concrete path, or whatever it is the cobblestone. But he also thinks there's also a component of this, that when we think about what the company is trying to achieve, and then looking at what the experience is, so he uses that statement navigation as an example.

These are the same companies that are very aggressively asking their customer base to go paperless. So, take the paper out of the process, because it saves us money, we don't have to print and mail it. But then when you look at the value proposition for the consumer, it's not there, right?

Like what's in it for me to go paperless?

Now I have to go to your website and navigate and try to find this and the experience is no better, usually it's a static. And he’s generically saying this, not all of their clients are this way. But it points you to a static document, not an interactive digital experience that provides more value than he would have gotten in paper.

And that was actually a really interesting takeaway from the research, which was 71% of consumers that had not gone paperless said that they would do so if the company provided a more engaging digital experience. And that's like the “big aha,” which is if we're creating better experiences, we're improving customer experience, but we're also achieving these operational goals of reducing print and mail and otherwise.

Consumers Looking for a More Engaging Digital Experience

Me: Amazing. So, you said that consumers were looking for a more engaging digital experience, could you share with us maybe one or two things that you think a company could employ or put in place to make their digital experience more engaging?

Matt shared that one of the weakest links of many companies’ communication strategy, and again, through his lens, right, so those that are sending a bill or a statement, is that bill ready or statement ready notification.

So, think of the banks, the insurance companies, the telecommunications companies, utilities that you work with, they'll send you that note that just says, “Your statement’s ready, click here to view and access.”

And sometimes it doesn't look anything like the rest of the brand that they've invested heavily in, it's a monthly communication. So sometimes it's the most frequent touchpoint that I have with that company, is this this generic email.

And one of the things that they do with clients, there are two approaches. One is an enhanced email where they're able to deliver more content directly within the email. So, instead of just saying it's ready, let me provide some value that directionally shows you how you did this month versus last or things to think about or other actions they're hoping you'll take.

Or they can redirect you to a microsite. So, instead of having to go back to the portal and log into the website, that way, you can authenticate through the email and get the full details in a microsite or a personalized experience that’s specific to that statement or bill that he’s asking you to look at.

Organizations Looking to Put Digital as part of Their Strategy – How do They Bridge That Gap as People Still Want Human Interaction

Me: And what are your thoughts on organizations, because digital is definitely I know it's been accelerated, I would say 10 times since the pandemic because organizations who weren't even fully digital or were looking to put digital as part of their strategy definitely had to do some quick acceleration because of the fact that we were all stuck at home. And of course, this was the only way that they could ensure that there was some continuity of business with their clients. But let's say you use digital, I'm all for digital, I believe that it's really important, technology is great.

But I do also believe that you should make yourself accessible if I do need to speak to a live human being. And I find that sometimes, the companies, they take on these technology tools, and when they take the technology tools on, and hopefully the technology should help you. So, for example, let's say I wanted to reach out to my utility company, and they have this chatbot on your website. And the chatbots name is let's say, Ella, I say, “Hi, Ella.” And Ella is able to answer very standard questions. But of course, because I know Ella can’t answer me, I'm going to say to Ella, automatically, please connect me to a representative. So, she can transfer the call to somebody, the conversation to somebody who can actually help me. But that in itself doesn't work very well, because nobody actually is able to be connected to. And when you try to call them on the phone, you're not able to get through to them, because you're on hold for very long periods of time, 53 minutes, 60 odd minutes.

How do they bridge that gap? Because people I think still want human interaction!

Matt sated absolutely. And that's the challenge that he’s seeing now. It's coming through in the research that they're doing and some of the client discussions, which is that the jump to embrace the technology from you could say it's customer experience led, oftentimes it's cost cutting led, there's an operational savings to implementing that chatbot.

Hopefully, that there is a balance that there is the improved customer experience of getting something answered quickly, like, “Where should I mail my bill to or what are your hours of operation?” Or those types of things that somebody might get value out of the chatbot.

But your comment about that hold time, where you then go on the phone, and you have to listen to a rotating one minute message that keeps telling you go online, you can conduct everything there yet, that's where you started, and you weren't able to achieve what you needed so you came to the phone, but you still have that hour wait.

He thinks it does speak to the need to have the capability of flexing the staff. So, you might have your full-time utility staff, and then you can tap into a third party that might charge you a bit of a premium, but they can help you during those surge times as well.

App, Website or Tool that Matt Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business

When asked about online resources that he cannot live without in his business, Matt stated that he would say it is the Voice of Customer Research Tool that they use. And it is so efficient to be able to go in and get, he wouldn't call it real time feedback, actually, he can do real time if he sets it up that way.

But if he’s looking to that, a new concept, or go into a client meeting prepared with feedback from their customer base, so it's not just, “Here's what we're hearing from generic surveys but here's what some of your customers said about you. And I know that you know a lot of this already, but we just wanted to come prepared to the meeting.”

It's such a valuable tool in that way. So, whether it's AB testing, or a quick poll or survey, or getting feedback on a new concept or design, it can be a really valuable way of bringing data and analytics to the discussion with the client or to make a more robust solution if they're building something on their own.

What Matt is Really Excited About Now!

Matt shared that Broadridge is a pretty large company, they have 14,000 Associates across 21 countries, they also support a lot of clients. So, they have actually sent 7 billion communications a year on behalf of their clients. So, that results in a little bit of practicing what you preach.

So, they have a client success team at Broadridge and he’s a member of the client satisfaction and engagement work stream and in that work stream, they're gathering perspective from their clients about what Broadridge does well, where they can be a better partner, how they should be thinking about their products or services, their technology offerings going forward. And that's all in the hopes of best positioning themselves as their partners of the future.

So, they encourage their clients to do that voice of customer research to make sure that they're taking a design thinking approach and a customer first approach to the way that they support their clients and consumer.

In many cases, they're doing the same within their organization, he thinks it's incredibly important to always keep that in perspective that you need to have your finger on the pulse of what's happening within your organization, the trends that are influencing outside forces, and then ultimately, how that can help better position you to be a better partner going forward.

Where Can We Find Matt Online

Website – www.broadridge.com

LinkedIn – Broadridge Communications Consulting

Twitter - @Broadridge

Twitter - @AskMattSwain

LinkedIn – Matt Swain

Podcast – Reimagining Communications with Matt Swain

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Matt Uses

When asked about quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Matt stated that it's funny, as Yanique was asking the question, he had all these quotes just going through his head and the one that kept kind of pushing its way to the front was, “Do no harm.” And he thinks the do no harm approach is a really critical one, especially when you're thinking with a customer service lens or a customer experience lens, that if you can live by do no harm mantra, he thinks you're going be in a good position.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Andrew Ou is an award-winning UX strategist, designer and author based in Vancouver, BC. He helps SaaS companies increase their revenue and profitability by reducing cost of support and while building a better customer experience. His past clients include HSBC, Rosetta Stone, and Asurion.

Questions

• Can you share in your owns words, a little bit about your journey, how did you get to where you are today?
• Now, customer experience, SaaS products, support services, can you share with us maybe some trends that you see emerging or have emerged since 2022 as it relates to this part of service delivery or customer experience?
• From a UX strategy point of view if you're building a product, how does the client or the customer travel through the journey that you are taking them through in a digital way, while still holding all of the same principles and values that you would if it was a face to face interaction, or even over the phone? So, how can we translate that in a positive way? And if it's not done positively? Why would it impact our revenue and profitability?
• One of the other things that we do get asked a lot is, how can we reduce the cost of customer support? So, what's one way? Would the strategy, putting something in place that eradicates that complaint from coming forward again be one way to reduce customer support? And are there any other ways?
• Could you also share with our audience maybe I would say 1 to 3 tips that you believe will help organizations build a better customer experience?
• Could you also share with our audience what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business?
• Could you also share with us maybe one or two books that you have read, it could be a book that you read recently, or maybe one that you read a very long time ago, but it has had a big impact on you.
• Could you also share with us what's one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Do you have a quote or saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you will tend to revert to this quote, it kind of helps to get you back on track if for any reason you got derailed or you got off track.

Highlights

Andrew’s Journey

Me: So, we always like to give our guests the opportunity to share in their own words, a little bit about their journeys. So, how did you get to where you are today? I know we read like a brief bio, but it's always good to get in guests own words, a little bit about their own journey.

Andrew shared that he started off in UX design, he’s been doing that for he thinks over around 8 to 10 years now. And like Yanique mentioned, he used to work for companies like HSBC, Asurion and fit brains Rosetta Stone. And now he’s just sort of running his own consultancy where he helps SaaS founders build beautiful products that impact the world. And a lot of that has to do with creating an excellent customer journey and a good customer experience.

Customer Experience, SaaS Products, Support Service – Trends Emerging Since 2022 as it Relates to Service Delivery and Customer Experience

Me: Now, customer experience, SaaS products, support services, can you share with us maybe some trends that you see emerging or have emerged since 2022 as it relates to this part of service delivery or customer experience?

Andrew shared that he thinks there's a very interesting intersection between customer experience and user experience, mainly that, both of the words and with experience and so it's a very interesting intersection, because they sort of do affect each other. And a lot of the overarching trend is that we're always moving towards a better user experience and what he noticed is that when there's a customer experience issue, it typically always comes back to something related to sort of the design of the product and that's where users get stuck.

So, one of the things he noticed is that when there's a support issue, and you can actually fix it and make the product better from a user experience standpoint, and by getting to the root cause, it actually improves the product by a lot and there are a lot of benefits to it.

UX Strategy – How Does the Customer Travel Through the Journey and its Impact on Revenue and Profitability

Me: A lot of our listeners are also interested in the direct correlation between revenue profitability and customer experience. From a UX strategy point of view, how are you going to use an experience? Because whereas customer experience probably talks to the more tangible, user experience is probably more talking about the digital experience? Like, if you're building a product, how does the client or the customer travel through the journey that you are taking them through in a digital way, while still holding all of the same principles and values that you would if it was a face to face interaction, or even over the phone? So, how can we translate that in a positive way? And if it's not done positively? Why would it impact our revenue and profitability?

Andrew shared that the thing you have to realize is that, like, when a user is using your product, they sort of have an idea of how to use the product and that's sort of like a customer's intuition on how the product should work. So, when you're designing a product, you should always keep that in mind and also set the expectations so that the users know where they are in the journey.

Now, a big part of where customer experience comes into play is that, with a good product experience, for example, like Google, and most of the time he thinks like, if you never had like most of those users never probably have to contact Google because their product, they’re just so easy to use.

Now, the opposite of that is you're contacting a product for support, because experience is bad, and that's what happens, right? That's because somewhere along the way, you were trying to do something, and you couldn't do what you needed to do so then you need to contact support to get it done. So that's primarily what happens and that means there's a cost to support associated with that, that means you got to spend the resource into fixing that issue.

So that's how like a bad customer experience makes a direct impact, or has a direct impact on the revenue and profitability. Because you shouldn't rely on customer support to help your users navigate the product. And if you're seeing a really high cost of support in that aspect, that means there's a really sort of like a gap in the user experience.

Me: So, dovetailing off of what you just said Andrew, what about those companies or products that don't have an avenue for you to get through to customer support. So, I've bought products already and as you mentioned, I've bucked up on a roadblock, and I need to get some assistance, and I go to their website, and the only avenue that they have for me to get through to someone is to send an email, they have no live chat with live agents, there is no telephone number there for me to actually call a number and get through. And sending an email, of course, is clearly not going to have my issue resolved in the next 5 or 10 minutes. What are your thoughts on companies that take that approach?

Andrew shared that well, that means they definitely have a gap in the product experience, because you're in a situation where you need to contact support, but it's not there. So that means you must feel kind of frustrated, or you wanted to get your problem solved, but it's not available, right? Is that how you're feeling at that moment?

And he would always like to say that it's really crucial that a company focuses on building a good customer experience, because that's how you get loyal users to come back to you and raving fans that love your product. So, if you sort of like have that cut off for customer support, and people are having trouble reaching the company where they actually needed, he doesn't think that's a really good strategy and users like you will get frustrated and that might negatively impact your relationship with that company.

Me: So, then your recommendation is they should have an avenue by which you can actually get through to someone, a live human being who can answer your question, correct?

Andrew stated that that's actually one of two strategies. So, yes, like talking to a human helps, but on the other hand, you can also look at when these problems occur, like why did they happen, and from a company strategy point of view, if you're having these issues come up pretty often, they should look into solving that so that it doesn't happen again and that will actually be a better strategy for improving the user experience.

Reducing the Cost of Customer Support and Eradicate Complaints From Coming Forward

Me: One of the other things that we do get asked a lot is, how can we reduce the cost of customer support? So, what's one way? Would the strategy, putting something in place that eradicates that complaint from coming forward again be one way to reduce customer support? And are there any other ways?

Andrew stated absolutely. And that's coming from like a UX strategy point of view. So, he'll sort of tell you like a lot of what companies do when they have these issues, because he’s experienced it himself.

Andrew shares a story, he was using this product, it was like a LinkedIn outreach tool. And he was having trouble using it because he was expecting the software to function a certain way, but it didn't. So, then he had to contact support and then support was explaining to him like, “Oh, no, that's not how our product works. You got to use it this way, or do this and that. And then then you won't run into this issue.” And he’s thinking like, if he’s having this issue, there must be a lot of users who are also having it because the way that he had envisioned it to work was actually really, really different.

So then, what's happening is these companies are training their customer experience reps to explain the product should function a certain way. And they have to do that over and over again, and it's not solving the root of the problem.

So, what companies should actually do is, when they encounter these issues, and these issues, they're likely frequent, they should actually look at it from a design point of view and see how they can solve that because once they do, it leads to a lot of benefits downstream, like when you eliminate the root of the problem, you eliminate the cost of training and the cost of support and documentation for that problem, because they no longer exist.

So, he thinks companies, when they face a situation where they're seeing the same support issues over and over again, they should look into solving that and getting to the root of that problem and solving that directly. And that will actually ease up the support volume, and also reduce the cost of support.

Tips that Will Help Organizations Build a Better Customer Experience

Andrew shared that he thinks number one, is you got to be really customer centric and that means doing your best to make sure that you give the customers the best experience in whatever avenue. So, if they're having troubles, become human and try to help them solve that problem directly, instead of being so strict or so robotic, and your policies.

And he'll give you one example. He was using a software a while ago, and he had forgotten to turn off my billing, and they just billed him without even telling me and they didn't even send out emails or anything. So, he sort of felt like a complaint because he was not happy with the way they were doing things.

And they actually responded and there's two ways that they could have gone, one is they just say, “Well, sorry, according to our policy, we don't actually offer any refunds.” But the support rep was really, really human and sort of talked to him in a way that was human and really nice and she actually helped him solve that problem. And he actually appreciated that, that gave him so much more like hope and happiness, because he really appreciated the fact that they were customer centric. And being that, it makes him want to become more of their customer. So, he thinks that's definitely the most important tip.

Because if you focus on just giving value to your customers, he thinks your customers will really appreciate that. And he thinks the second thing is, again, sort of similar. But again, it's focusing on the user experience side of things because if you really focus on building a great customer experience, you'll have like an amazing product and the benchmark of a really amazing product is that it doesn't require so much support for the user to navigate the product and learn how to use it.

App, Website or Tool that Andrew Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business

When asked about an online resource that he cannot live without in his business, Andrew stated that that's a sort of interesting one. He thinks from like a business owner’s perspective, he thinks tools that helped him eliminate time, like, count Calendly, for example, definitely helps just clean things up. He definitely thinks he can't live without that, because organizing all his meetings and becoming aware of them. Getting like a good email is also good because, again, it helps him organize his time and everything. He guesses that's coming from more of like a business owner perspective. Getting all your tools done, the main idea is to cut out all the little things, all the little distractions, and any tools that will help you do that, it's something that you want to look into.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Andrew

When asked about books that have had an impact, Andrew shared stated that this is going to sound interesting, because this book isn't really like a design book, it's actually a martial arts book from Bruce Lee called the Toa of Jeet Kune Do. But what he really appreciated from this book was just the philosophies in there were just so eye opening, it talks a lot about like, simplicity and everything. So, it talks about like a lot of principles of simplicity, economy and efficiency when it comes to martial arts and it's totally different, he gets it. But he’s adapted a lot of that principles in his design. So, that means, like a lot of his design principles actually come from that, simplifying things when it comes to designing interfaces, so on and so forth. And it's really just mind opening.

What Andrew is Really Excited About Now!

Andrew shared that right now he’s helping tech founders build amazing products. And he thinks just the whole idea of, he’s the kind of person where he really likes to improve things. So, when he’s working on these projects, he thinks about how much they can impact users in the world. And so, he’s also making it efficient for himself to help other tech founders do that. And that to him is really exciting to help a lot of tech founders build amazing products, and really seeing a lot of their ideas and then talking about ideas, working through them and then coming up with solutions that really help other people.

Where Can We Find Andrew Online

Website – www.andrewou.com

Andrew also shared that he has a gift for all the listeners here, it's an 8 page like super easy to read PDF that you can consume in 8 minutes or less. And it's about the 5 ways UX can help SaaS companies increase revenue and profitability. And that's on www.andrewou.com/guide

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Andrew Uses

When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Andrew shared that through his challenging times, there's one quote that keeps coming back to him and it's by Winston Churchill, and he thinks it goes something like this, it's like, “Out of immense complexities, immense simplicities emerge.” And for some reason, that just sticks with him, like if you're going through a really complicated process, or a part in your life, there's always going to be some light at the end of the tunnel and the answer to that is going to be fairly simple.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• Tao of Jeet Kune Do by Bruce Lee

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

We have a return guest Jason Ten-Pow. Jason was on our podcast last year September and he has returned. Jason is the son of immigrants, moved to Canada with his family when he was seven years old. His passion for customer experience was sparked as a teenager while working behind the meat counter of a carnival-themed grocery store in Toronto, Ontario. From there, Ten-Pow co-ran a niche computer technology company, Visionary Enterprises, that built and installed computers and networks.

This venture taught him the basics of running a business and his commitment to customer service sparked the confidence to found ONR, his CX consulting firm in 2001. As the founder and president of ONR, Ten-Pow has expanded his lifelong passion for creating unbreakable customer relationships into an organization with more than 20 years of experience helping renowned brands evolve their customer success stories.

Questions

• What is Blockchain? what are you talking about? So, could you share with us a little bit about what Blockchain is and how that even can impact customer experience?
• Could you give me in real life terms like, I'm a business; let's say, for example, I own a retail outlet, how does Blockchain affect me, I'm selling stuff online, I have a retail store where customers can come in face to face. What does that mean for my customers?
• Who do you see adopting Blockchain in terms of customer?
• Could you expound for us as it relates to data transparency and consumer loyalty?
• Could give them maybe one or two CX tips that you think will allow them to really connect with their customers, build better and stronger and deeper relationships. What would those two tips be for 2022?
• Could you share with our listeners, what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote, it kind of helps to get you back on track if for any reason you get derailed? Do you have one of those?

Highlights

What is Blockchain?

Me: So, we're having Jason back on our podcast. As I mentioned, he was here with us last year September talking about his book Unbreakable: A proven process for building unbreakable relationships with customers. And today he's here to share with us a little bit about his release that was released earlier this month. The title of the article was Wider Blockchain Adoption Will Impact Customer Experience. And so, my question to you Jason is for those persons that are listening to me are probably saying to themselves, what is Blockchain? what are you talking about? So, could you share with us a little bit about what Blockchain is and how that even can impact customer experience?

Jason stated that Blockchain can be many things, but at its core, it's the ability of information to be transferred either by the customer or by a product. So, information is tagged and carried along a pathway that can be picked up and shared, but it's also a very secure way of sharing information. And at its core, the value or the benefit for businesses is that it allows them to acquire a lot more information about their customers and more holistic information about the customer. And for the customer, the benefit is they can have a much better understanding of the product itself, where it was created and where it was manufactured and how it ended up in their hands.

So, Blockchain is really about a safe way of transmitting information back and forth amongst various sources. And the benefit for CX is that it allows businesses to have to acquire much deeper knowledge about its customers. And for the customer, it allows the customer to understand the product they're purchasing, and where it came from in a much more deep and meaningful way.

And this is exceptionally important today because, well, you think of movements such as ESG, which is Environmental Impact, Social Responsibility and Governance, which is very important considerations for customers that are purchasing a product, it's good to have an understanding of who's manufacturing, where this product is from, and if it was manufactured in an environmentally, with minimally environmental impact, and in a socially responsible manner. And so, these are very important bits of information that are being transformed.

How Does Blockchain Affect a Retail Outlet Owner?

Me: All right, now, you kind of gave us the book definition just now of Blockchain. Could you give me in real life terms like, I'm a business; let's say, for example, I own a retail outlet, how does Blockchain affect me, I'm selling stuff online, I have a retail store where customers can come in face to face. What does that mean for my customers?

Jason stated that what that means for your customers is that you have a lot more information about your customers when they make a purchase. And you'd mean, not just simply their transaction information, but you can have depending on what's in that Blockchain, you can have much deeper information like their age, if they share that with you, like a whole host of very important demographic information that is now connected to the actual purchase of the product, which allows you to know the customer in a much deeper way, in a much easier manner than you've ever been able to before.

Me: Now, what are some of the industries that you see adopting this new method of payment?

Jason stated that it's funny, he thinks any industry that is transacting online, this will be huge for, financial institutions are going to be right on top of this, retailers are going to really care about this. Why? Because it's an easier way to acquire knowledge, and to know your customer. Now, for example, the types of customers that will care about this, especially customers that are trying to be socially responsible, making sure that their products that they’re purchasing are having minimal negative impact on the environment, or that the company that's building this product is being inclusive in their hiring practices, all this type of information can be shared across this Blockchain.

And so, at the end of the day, that's the overall sort of long-term benefit. Now, we're right in the infancy of this new technology so that's what's very exciting. But at the same time, we're seeing a lot of changes in how customers make decisions, where price used to be the primary drivers, and even for companies, revenue used to be their sort of main goal that they wanted to achieve. Now you're seeing much wider, sort of the range of metrics that companies measure themselves against for success, including things like environmental impact, social responsibility, and governance, which the short term for that is ESG, which is a really hot topic right now, because customers are very interested in understanding the impact their products are having, both socially and on the environment.

Customers Who Are Adopting Blockchain

Me: Now, in your release, you had mentioned that Blockchain Adoption has highlighted some customers, how some customers are looking for new different offerings, it's new, and you know for example, as it relates to the different types of buying personas, if that's the best way to describe it, you will have like the millennials, you have the Gen z's, who do you see adopting in terms of customer base because for example, I don't see my mom engaging in this.

Jason stated no, absolutely. This is definitely for the next generation. We know the up-and-coming generation, the young folks, they are much more cognizant of the environment, and of social justice and equality and those are the customers and the ability to have this information will really benefit, not only because they're more likely to purchase online, but also because they care about these things when they're making the purchase decision much more so than previous generations have.

Me: Okay, and when you say they care, is that kind of tying back into where you said, emotion will now take an even larger role in decision making all because of the fact that they're concerned about equality, justice, fairness, those are things that are high on reasons why they buy from a company?

Jason agreed. You better believe it. You're absolutely right. And what we're seeing more and more today is that it's not simply a price comparison, a lot of the products that the younger generation are purchasing, there's deep reasons behind why they're purchasing that's very different than previous generations. And so, absolutely, that's a huge selling point. And that's just literally where the marketplace is going in the future, because at the end of the day, why do companies care about ESG? It's because the customers are demanding that brands be socially responsible, take care of the environment and that has to be taken into account when you're looking at whether your brand is profitable or not.

Data Transparency and Consumer Loyalty

Me: Now, you also mentioned in your article that there in this whole process, it's important for the companies to adhere to industry regulation and improve supply chain management and there are three things that you touched on industry regulation, data transparency, and consumer loyalty. Could you expound for us as it relates to data transparency and consumer loyalty?

Jason shared that this is where you intersect a lot of different new trends that we're seeing. So for example, if you want to be considered environmentally friendly, the government has set up regulations and standards of which to measure your level of environmental impact the company's having, and in the USA, it's now starting to roll out and become more adhered to. However, other standards around for example, social responsibilities really haven't been set. So, how you measure a brand's level of social responsibility is really up in the air.

And so, right now you're having different ways of measuring it. But what is going to happen eventually, is that there's going to be a standardized way of measuring it and this is where it comes back to customer loyalty. Because if these customers care about these things, they'll be looking at these indicators to understand how the brand they want to purchase from measures up across these very important dimensions.

Me: I get you. So, it's all connected. And then the general supply chain, how does that tie back in?

Jason stated that supply chain exactly, where are your products coming from? Is it being manufactured in a place that is not setting socially responsible markers for how they treat employees, there's in terms of wages, in terms of environmental protection in all of these different areas. So in the past, a company could afford to just measure where they're going to manufacture a product simply on which is the cheapest location - that is going to change as well. Because if that information becomes freely available, customers will be thinking, “You know what, I don't want to purchase this shirt that's made in this part of the world where they're using child labour. I would prefer to pay a few dollars more to purchase it from a brand that's socially responsible.” Does that make sense?

Me: Yes, it does, it totally does. But it also, I think, will require a lot of research on the part of the consumer or the way how the Blockchain system is set up now, they will be able to delve and capture that information readily when they're making the purchase.

Jason stated that that's the future and that's the sort of Holy Grail is to be able to look at the product, scan this code, be able to understand exactly where all this information about the product and it's all at your fingertips. So, the customer can make a much more informed decision than they ever have been able to do before.

Me: Over the years I've definitely seen customer experience evolve, at one point, if you look back at how customers made decisions before, it was heavily driven by what the organization told them, especially before the age of the internet where you could do your own research. And it's like the tables have totally turned Jason where I mean, the ball is fully and even more so as you mentioned, this new technology, this new way of decision making, as we go forward, it's even more in the court of the customer, because the customers are given so much more ammunition now and they should be, because at the end of the day, they're the ones that are opening their wallets, and spending to create these astronomical profits for these organizations globally. So why not put the decision-making capability in their hands, so they can really make a choice for the product or service that they want to purchase holistically.

Jason agreed, absolutely. And what it's going to put a lot of pressure on companies to really deliver a bespoke customer experience that's unique to the needs of every customer, so it will be slightly different. Why? Because that's what customers are going to demand, “You're going to care about the things I care about, right? And you're going to tell me exactly how you are manufacturing these things, and you're going to deliver a shopping experience the way I want a shopping experience to be delivered.”

And what that allows companies is to actually be able to build a more customized experience, because they will have that information readily available. And so, the transparency that will be possible will benefit both the brands if they take advantage of it. But it's definitely going to put a lot more power in the hands of the customer especially because it's exactly you said, knowledge is power and the more knowledge the customer has, the more informed decision they can make.

CX Tips That Will Allow Businesses to Connect and Build Better and Deeper Relationships with Their Customers

Me: Now, Jason, I know the first quarter of the year has passed, but we're in the beginning of the second quarter. But could you give our listeners maybe one or two CX tips that you think, outside of this new technology, because as you mentioned, it's still in its infancy stages, but let's say where they are currently in their business, they're just not there yet clearly. But they're looking to ensure that they employ maybe the best, if you could give them maybe one or two tips that you think will allow them to really connect with their customers, build better and stronger and deeper relationships, what would those two tips be for 2022?

Jason stated that 2022 is the year of Listening and here's why, the marketplace has changed coming out of the pandemic, customers have different expectations for shopping and purchasing experiences and it's different than ever before. And the customers are really going to dictate how they want to shop and how they're going to purchase moving forward. There's a lot of companies out there that are just thinking to themselves, “Oh, I'm just going to hold out until we get back to how things were before.” And the truth of the matter is, things are not going to go back to how they were before, things have changed, and they are different.

And unless you start listening more closely to your customers in every interaction, whether you're a restaurant listening to your patrons and their feedback in terms of what they want, and how they want it delivered, to major brands who are selling investments in ESG, stocks and ETFs, all and everywhere in between.

If you're not listening to your customers and understanding how their wants, needs and desires have evolved, you are going to be left behind and that is really his encouragement to companies coming out at the pandemic to start listening to your customers more closely than you ever have before. Because their opinions and their values have changed.

Me: I've heard some organizations say that they think customers are way more sensitive, they complain about the least little thing since the pandemic, what are your thoughts on organizations that view their customer feedback as customers being too sensitive and it's almost like they're not open to being flexible or being adaptable to take the feedback that the customer is giving them.

Jason shared that it's funny, the brands that they work with that they hear this from are brands that are stuck in the past. And he often hears, “This is the way we've always done it.”

And so, those are the brands that that may have been the way you've done it in the past, but if you don't change your focus from short term financial, quarter over quarter goals, to a longer-term view of what success really means beyond just simply your short-term financial metrics, you're going to be in big trouble. And this is really the tug of war that's going on, it's the old sort of dynamic of, okay, near term profits at any cost versus taking a longer view of your brand, and your brand's health. And let's be honest, public corporations are the ones that have been most guilty of that and those are the ones that he believes are going to be at biggest risk if they don't adapt themselves to the evolving customer.

What Jason is Really Excited About Now!

Jason shared that they’re working to develop a better understanding of the impact ESG is going to have on decision making over the next 12 to 24 months. So, over that time, they'll be speaking to investors and customers, as well as business leaders to understand who is driving from an organizational point of view, interest in ESG. And what measures companies are taking to implement tactics that address customers ESG concerns? And how important is ESG becoming in the decision making of customers? So, those are the three angles they're looking at. And so, it's going to be quite interesting, because he thinks what we're talking about Blockchain is just one aspect of the bigger evolution that's taking place.

And so, it's going to be interesting to see how these things evolve together, because there's still many that think that this is a fad, it's going away. They're betting against that, they're saying no, these things are here to stay, and these are the changes in evolution and how business is being conducted. So, it'll be interesting to see what business leaders are thinking in terms of these new and various approaches to thinking about the company's success.

Where Can We Find Jason Online

LinkedIn – Jason Ten-Pow

Website – www.onrcx.com

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Jason Uses

When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Jason stated yes. First thing is, “Stop” whatever you're doing stop, take a deep breath. If you have a big problem, the first thing you want to do is you want to cut that problem into smaller chunks that are manageable, that are solvable, and then create a pathway ahead, don't just see a problem and dive in and try to solve it. Because that's the biggest issue that companies and that's why they hit the wall, “Oh, I want to improve customer experience. Great. I want this metric up 10%. Let's throw money at the wall and see what sticks.” No, that's never the right approach. You have to take a very strategic approach to these types of problems and these types of challenges, and you have to always have a plan. So, make sure you stop and take the time to plan.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• Unbreakable: A proven process for building unbreakable relationships with customers by Jason Ten-Pow

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Matt Young is the CEO of UserVoice, the first (and we think best!) product feedback and research tool for software companies around the world. Matt started his professional career as a software developer, right when web browsers were released. He developed innovative solutions on the web well before SaaS and Product Management were the ubiquitous terms that they are today.

Over his career, he has pushed for better ways to build software. And through all the changes in development methodologies, he has put the customer at the centre of everything his teams have built. This is what attracted him to UserVoice - an opportunity to make sure that teams building complex software solutions have direct access to the intended users - to make sure that the problems any company or development team are solving are actually worth solving.

Questions

• Could you share a little bit about your journey with our listeners, in your own words?
• Could you tell us a little bit about UserVoice? To the average listener that's listening to this podcast, a little bit about the company, what does the company do? And what types of businesses do you primarily service?
• What about tips for improving feature request responses?
• Could you share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business?
• Can you also share with us maybe one or two books that have had the biggest impact on you? It could be a book that you read a very long time ago, or even one that you've read recently that has really impacted you in a great way.
• If you could choose the best customer service or customer experience tip to give to our listeners who are business owners, what would be the most important tip that you would give them to ensure that their business is successful?
• Could you also share with us what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Where can they find you online?
• Do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge you'll tend to revert to this quote, it kind of helps to get you back on track if for whatever reason you got derailed or you got off track.

Highlights

Matt’s Journey

Matt shared that he had a pretty ordinary software development career starting off as an individual software developer, and then moving into management. The thing that he had experienced while doing all that was that he would notice that product teams would ask engineering teams, which are big and expensive and complicated to build things and didn't really have a good way to justify the reasoning behind that. He was really interested in hearing why customers thought what they were being asked to build was important, why it was an important problem to solve, why the solution they had in mind was a good one for them. And he just was really passionate about companies being connected to the users that they serve.

So, that's kind of what brought him to UserVoice. He started out as the VP of Engineering at UserVoice but over the years, they've spun out a couple of other products and other companies, so the original founder is now the CEO of a sister company of theirs, it's working on some parallel products, and UserVoice is his to run and build and all the responsibility and fun that comes with that.

What is UserVoice and What Does the Company Do?

Me: Could you tell us a little bit about UserVoice? To the average listener that's listening to this podcast, a little bit about the company, what does the company do? And what types of businesses do you primarily service?

Matt shared that UserVoice is a software as a service product and it's all oriented around making sure that you can gather any feedback that comes your way about your product, and that that feedback is available to the entire organization and can be analyzed and used to make products better. So, you guys have probably seen somewhere in your professional lives, a place where you had the opportunity to tell a team how they could make their product better, and that's evolved over the years and the way that that happens. There are annoying ways to do it, like with pop-up windows and there're really common ways to do it, like with surveys. But whether you've got a system in place or not, like people are providing feedback all the time, they're doing that in the middle of a sales demo, for example, they're saying what they do and don't like about the product, they're showing. They're doing that through support tickets, by asking about a thing they want to try to accomplish that may not be supported yet.

So, UserVoice the product makes it really easy for anyone who's in any position to hear customer feedback, either an employee of the company and support sales or success, or the customers themselves, have the ability to send whatever it is that's worrying them to the company and then gives the product team the ability to aggregate what is usually a pretty big mountain of data into something that helps them relate their product development plans to the goals that the company currently has. So, the short story is they're a software as a service product, but it's a business analysis tool that's built around product feedback.

Me: One of the things I was intrigued in getting your feedback on is, do you think customers should be driving the product roadmap?

Matt stated that that's a question that they get asked quite a bit and the funny thing about that is that a lot of the traditional like stereotypical personality type of a product manager is a very creative type person and he thinks they can feel a little bit threatened by saying, “Hey, your customers should drive your roadmap.”

And they think, “Well, what about me? What about the innovation and creativity that we have to bring to bear?”

He thinks it's a mistake to think of it as a black and white question like, should customers be driving a roadmap? “No.”

Should companies be creating a roadmap without customer input? “No, neither one is quite right.”

They need to use each other to really understand each other and meet to find common ground about the real problems that they're trying to solve. So, he basically views customer feedback as research inputs into a roadmap that's getting created. Not customers, like actually prioritizing things and steering the ship directly but they do have a lot of really valuable information for companies that can help them go to market with much greater success.

Tips for Improving Feature Request Responses

Matt stated that the typical product manager is getting asked to do a lot of things, they're getting asked by their co-workers to change the product to close a deal, for example, customers obviously have a lot of input. One thing that really makes a lot of product managers nervous is the fact that they know that they need to say no to a lot of these things just because of resource constraints, or that what they're being asked for doesn't necessarily fit the vision of the company. But getting comfortable saying no to people, he thinks it's just a matter of being more transparent with them. The customers of software, especially these days are getting more sophisticated and understanding how software is developed, how hard it is to make it perfect and do all the things that you want it to do.

So, he thinks transparency goes a really long way so when you do get feedback about your product, acknowledging the people that you're listening, making sure that they feel valued, and that the time they took to give you that feedback is something that you take seriously and find value in yourself, acknowledging that is important.

But then being very frank with what's the process, what's going to happen next. He doesn't think most customers would expect, “Okay, great, we're going to get to work on this right away.” That's not the way that software gets developed. But if you can explain to people like, “Hey, cool, thanks. I've made a note of this. We're going to talk about it with the team; we're going to keep our ears out for other customers like you who might need a similar kind of thing. And is it okay if we come back to you and have a conversation about this topic later when we decide to dig into it some more and get some more specific feedback from you about how your point of view has changed, about different solutions we're considering and all those things.” So, using customer feedback as an invitation to engage with a customer base, he thinks is a really good way to look at it.

Me: Now, as it relates to product development, a lot of a lot of customers I believe have challenges sometimes trying to identify what's the right type of product that they may need for their business. The customer feedback, it's definitely something you should get ongoing once you actually sold a product, or you've had an idea of what the design is going to look like and how it's going to affect the customer's life. But let's say you're at a developmental stage where you're not sure exactly what the market needs, how do you gather feedback at that point?

Matt stated that the best way to do that is through one on one interviews. And he thinks them being a one on one, he'd say in person, but more often than not, it's something like a Zoom call or a Skype call or something like that, where you're talking to people.

You want to get as high fidelity information as you possibly can from people and that usually requires a conversation, asking people to fill in a form, it's kind of a boring activity. You can't ask follow on questions, etc. And when you're just in that early stage of developing your product, you want to be able to interact with that customer and maybe observe how excited or indifferent they are about what you're building. Are they just eager and jumping out of their seat at the opportunity to use something like what you're describing to them? Or are they more middle of the road.

Most people are very polite, so they're not going to tell you that it's a bad idea or anything like that but they might not be excited about it and that's a pretty good sign that you might not be on to something that's truly differentiated in the market for you. So, they always say like, until you have 100 or so customers, doing interviews in person and not getting software systems in the middle of that connection between you and a customer is really important to do, where once you cross a threshold of a 100 or so customers, you need to have systems that can scale because your time is limited, and you couldn't possibly have conversations with every single one of them.

Me: Agreed. So feedback, your whole solution is built around feedback. And I think feedback is so important. How is it that you handle dealing with some of your clients? For example, here in Jamaica, I found that sometimes when organizations get feedback, whether it's in like in an electronic format, or it is submitted to them in a verbal conversation, sometimes the organizations get defensive and it comes over in their tone and their language.

Matt agreed and stated that if you think about feedback, when was the last time you went out of your way to go tell someone they were doing a great job? “Everything that you are doing, and your product is awesome, and I love it, don't change a thing.” That just doesn't happen. You might occasionally get a compliment about something they do like, but it's always going to come with something that people want to be different.

So, as a company who provides a product to people, get into the mindset that they're not judging you, they're not trying to tell you you've done a bad job, they're trying to express to you what problems they think you might be a partner to them and help solve are and if you view it that way, then it's a whole lot less threatening, you're less likely to get defensive.

It's never going to be all good news, it's mostly like, “Here are deficiencies that I think you have in your product and ways that it could be better.” But don't take it that way, take it to mean like, “Okay, these are opportunities that we have, that are potential improvements that could not only benefit our business, but really benefit these customers and what they're trying to do in their lives.”

They get a lot of people who come to them who are pretty nervous about opening up the door to get feedback about their products, because it does seem like a little bit of a bad news train that's going to come your way. But they always try to coach them that like, “Okay, well, would you feel better just doing this blind, fumbling around, building software hoping that you're right. Or would you rather have actionable real information from people, even if it is a little bit tough to take at times?” And inevitably, when you think about it like, “Yeah, I know need the information, it's just we've been working so hard, and everyone's poured their hearts into it and I don't know if I can take hearing all the ways that people don't like it.” But it's okay, you'll get through it, we're all tough human beings. So it'll serve you well in the long run.

Me: That's really, really good advice. And it's good to know that even though you're an organization that's focused on feedback, you do offer some form of coaching with your clients, to kind of get them in that mindset to change your perspective, because you are correct. If you change your perspective and look at it as an opportunity, which generally speaking, I don't think the customer would come back to give you feedback if they didn't want to continue using your product.

Matt agreed. They wouldn't bother, the fact that they spared some time for you is a really good sign. It shows a degree of passion. As he’s thinking about this, he’s thinking about the world's most successful companies and you might in your mind, say, “Well, they've got it made, they've got these huge customer bases that are rolling in money.” But if you think about their world, they have even more feedback coming their way that's even more critical coming from all different directions in the world, because they are so popular. So it never ends, you're always going to get advice either unsolicited or solicited about how it could be better. So use it, use it to your advantage, make it a tool, not a threat.

App, Website or Tool that Matt Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business

When asked about online resource that he cannot live without, Matt shared that the app for him, it's Superhuman, the email client. They, like a lot of companies when the pandemic started shifted to working remotely and so even more than ever, his world is driven by email. So having a very efficient system in place that drives the mountain of email that shows up in his inbox every day, you can pry Superhuman out of his cold dead hands. And one of the things he likes about Superhuman also is that they're very public about the way that they do assess its value and build it. And Rahul Vohra who runs Superhuman, is a really interesting resource to look at from a product management perspective. So on two fronts, it's a great product and the way that they work on it is really interesting.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Matt

When asked about books that have impacted him, Matt stated that he’ll share two because there’s just one very old one that he read a long time ago and there's one relatively newer one that he thinks is really important. The older one is an old favourite that he’s sure you've all heard of, How to Win Friends & Influence People by Dale Carnegie. And the reason he likes it so much is that he’s an introvert. And introverts are not shy, they're not afraid of social interactions or anything like that but it drains energy to have a lot of interactions with people.

And How to Win Friends & Influence People was really to him the beginning of understanding behavioral psychology and learning how to do that on a person to person basis really set the foundation for thinking about how to build software products that speak to the psychological motivations behind what people do and don't do. So to him, it was kind of like the impetus to get started with what turned into a much bigger thing so they study psychology to try to make sure that their products are really good too. And it's a very approachable thing, especially if you listen to the audio book, whoever they got to narrate; it just feels like a warm blanket on a cold day, that guy's voice is great.

The other one he'd recommend, it's along the same lines, there's a book by Yuval Noah Harari called Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind and it's this very interesting discussion about the evolution of mankind and the various phases that it's gone through, even going back to like cavemen. But looking at the Iron Age, the Stone Age, all the different ages that we've gone through, and even more recent history. It even looks at things like religion through the lens of all the different eras. There was a time in history where multiple Gods was the norm. And the days we live in today, one God is the norm. And by looking at things way zoomed out like this, and humankind, you start to see the patterns of what changes and what stays the same with all of us over time and it's just this fascinating, very unusual perspective on humankind that he thought was really interesting.

Important Customer Experience Tips for Business Owners to Ensure That Their Business is Successful

Me: Now, Matt, could you also share with us and this is a bonus question. It wasn't in the conversation flow, but I feel like you give us an amazing answer. So the question is, if you could choose the best customer service or customer experience tip to give to our listeners who are business owners, what would be the most important tip that you would give them to ensure that their business is successful?

Matt stated that he’s going to say something that is a variation of like, make sure people aren't just the numbers to you and to put that into very tactical terms, call people by their name, and view them as an actual human being. If you're answering a support ticket, it's very easy to view things as an email that's coming through without a person behind it, who's having an actual problem, or having a good day or a bad day or frustration or excitement about what you're doing.

But if you can always be visualizing the person behind it, and the fact that they go beyond this relationship that you have with them about your product, and they are a human being that is just like you in terms of their hopes and dreams and fears and the lives that they lead, it's going to make you a much more empathetic provider of services and that goes a really, really long way in the success of businesses.

What Matt is Really Excited About Now!

Matt stated that this is actually something he’s really, really excited about. They just switched to a four day workweek, UserVoice did. And he thinks it's common in some areas of Europe, Scandinavia, in particular is kind of leading the way on it. But not a lot of American companies have tried this out and he thinks that's born of a few things and it's conjecture on his part but he thinks it's just lack of trust that a lot of companies have in their workforce, which he thinks is a huge mistake. But they're a relatively small company, and they try to be very experimental in what they do. And in doing so, they started a four day workweek experiment about six weeks ago. And they laid out what their goals were, their goals were concrete, they wanted to make sure that their output was just as good as it is with a five day work week. But they wanted to make sure that people had more time to pursue their lives outside of work.

And it's been an epically good experience across the board, he’s sent out a survey every two weeks since they started asking people if they would continue if they had to decide today, and then asking about what some of the pros and cons have been. And people will tell you, like, “My days are busy, but they're very engaging. And I feel like this scarcity of time makes me choose my battles really carefully.”

And then, the one thing as an example, a guy named Tori, who's a product manager on their team, he has date morning with his wife every Friday morning, because the kids are at school, and his wife’s favourite thing to do is to go have breakfast at a restaurant. And so, they just do this every Friday, it's like, “My marriage is better, my connection to my wife is better, and I enjoy my job more.” So this is something he thinks more companies should look into. It's been great for them.

Me: I totally agree. Lovely, I love that. I really, really love that, I'm sure your employees must be totally excited that the organization is taking this leap forward. And you're doing it in a country or territory where it's not widely adopted as yet, hopefully, it will be eventually, as you had mentioned.

Matt shared that he has a hard time imagining going back to I five day workweek, it's only been a month and a half after working professionally for 35 years.

Me: I've spoken to so many people that said that they don't know what it would be like to go back into the office. And like here in Jamaica, we were kind of emerging out of the pandemic like a lot of other countries are, but there are a lot of organizations who they just can't see and I think it's because they don't have the systems and tools in place, really but they just can't see their business operating with their team members, majority of them operating from home, and some of them in all honesty, really don't need to be in a physical space, in a building, in a business district area to come and get the job done. I think if they had the right productivity tools to kind of measure and as you said, they were able to clearly identify what their goals are, and are still able to achieve those goals with their team members working from home, it's very doable.

Matt stated that it does take trust on the part of the leadership of the organization, that you've hired the right people and that a lot of companies say this, but he thinks a lot of companies, it's lip service that, “I don't care what you do, as long as you get your work done.” There are other companies that if they find out, “I took an hour long walk at lunch, because I wanted to, they might get judgy about that,” which is why if you're getting good stuff done, it doesn't make any sense. So, he agrees. It's very similar to the remote versus office problem, and he doesn't need to watch someone work to know that they're doing a good job; he wants to see the results of what they do.

Where Can We Find Matt Online

LinkedIn – Matt Young

Email – matt@uservoice.com

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Matt Uses

When asked about quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Matt stated that he doesn't have a quote; his mind just doesn't work that way. If people ask him about like people that he follows and all that stuff, he tends not to do that, he tends to just assimilate his worldview into something that is influenced in small and big ways by all the different things he’s read or all the different people that he interacts with. But he thinks that the most important thing that he tries to keep in mind, especially these days, it was highlighted by the pandemic happening is that your life is not your job.

To him, the most important thing is the positive impact that you have on the earth in the time that you're here. Most specifically, the people around you. He grew up outside New York City so sometimes his language can be colourful, so he won't say it; don't be a you know, what is, the thing that drives him all the time, other people are just as stressed as you are, they're less privileged than you are, just have a bit of empathy for them.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• How to Win Friends & Influence People by Dale Carnegie
• Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind by Yuval Noah Harari

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Dr. Anna Harrison is a top ranked Digital Technology Advisor, Product Expert and Author. Anna’s work has helped New Zealand's best exporting and emerging brands create strategic and measurable plans to accelerate growth in new markets. Supported by successes across Europe, Asia, and the USA, Anna's work will help you remove your reliance on luck in the future success of your brand.

Questions

• We always like to give guest the opportunity to kind of just share a little bit about their journey in their own words.
• Your book Digital Brand Romance, could you tell us a little bit about the book?
• Could you explain to our audience what customer expectations are versus what customer satisfaction is?
• Could you define for our listeners what a promise is?
• So, that dovetails us nicely into the core of your book is based on the ADORE Process. Could you take our listeners through what that process is and what are the milestones in the journey of that process?
• Could you also share with our listeners what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business?
• Could you also share with us maybe one or two books that have had the biggest impact on you, it could be a book that you read recently, or even one that you read a very long time ago, but it still has had a great impact on you.
• What's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Do you have a quote or saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you’ll tend to revert to this quote, it kind of helps to get you back on track if for any reason you got derailed or you got off track?

Highlights

Anna’s Journey

Anna stated that we are in for a treat. So, probably the best way to describe her journey is that it is non-standard and very nonlinear. She’s lived on four continents and done a whole bunch of different things. And probably if you look back across the last sort of two decades of work, the only common thread amongst it all is that she’s done interesting things and she’s worked with great people, and that really is something that drives her and motivates her to seek out new challenges and look for different things. So, loosely speaking, she’s worked in product design and product development, started in IT and so back in technology, work a lot with customer experience, and the drivers that help people to make choices and help brands to sell more stuff to loyal customers.

What is Your Book Digital Brand Romance About?

Me: So, our podcast is all about Navigating the Customer Experience. As you can imagine, when your email came across my attention, and I saw that you wrote this book called Digital Brand Romance: How to Create Lasting Relationships in a Digital World, I said to myself, this sounds very interesting and then I read a little bit more and it really got me intrigued. And so, I'm sure just as how I was intrigued, our listeners will be just as intrigued about your book. So, could you tell us a little bit about the book?

Anna stated that Navigating the Customer Experience just to sort of jump out and big picture, it's her passion, it's what she thinks about at 3:00 am in the mornings. So, lots of mutual interest and overlap and she’s excited to share some of the things she’s learned in her life with our audience today.

So, Digital Brand Romance, it's the combination of about a life's work so to say, and it looks at the factors that influence us as human beings and propel us to be loyal to a brand or not. And the cool thing about the book is that it breaks all of that down into really easy steps. And she thinks if we look at digital experiences and customer experience, and all of that, and it's all in a digital space, very often we get a little bit scared, and we think, “Oh my God, what do we know about this space?” And we kind of forget that always at the other end of the computer, the person buying your pair of shoes, or the person buying the handbag that you're selling, or the SaaS product that you're selling is a human.

And as humans, we form relationships, and we make decisions in really predictable ways. And so, we remember this when we have relationships with other people in real life but as soon as we go to digital, we just forget everything we learned and we make things very transactional in our digital spaces, and we just hard sell the consumers.

And then we wonder why things are not working and why most of our marketing budget is being spent on Google AdWords and our conversion rates are super low, like 1% or 2%.

So, the book really explores what are the levers that we can pull to help us understand how people make decisions. And then how do we apply that to our digital assets, like websites, like email marketing campaigns, like our sales process, to really build strong relationships and a loyal customer base.

What Customer Expectations Are Versus What Customer Satisfaction Is

Me: Now, one of the things that came across my attention when I was reviewing your book, I like the fact that you spoke about customer expectations, you spoke about customer satisfaction, and you spoke about why they were very different. Could you explain to our audience what customer expectations are versus what customer satisfaction is?

Anna stated that it's an interesting distinction here and when we think about customer experience, this is an interesting study that was done by Forbes a few years ago. So, Forbes interviewed a whole bunch of brands. And they said, “Hey, how would you rate your customer experiences?” And 80% of the brands said, “They're excellent, they're awesome, we're doing a great job, our customers are happy.” They interviewed those brands, customers, and only 8% of people said that they were really satisfied with the customer experience. And so, that's a really big kind of discrepancy there. Most brands think they're providing great experiences, and most customers think they are not getting a great experience.

And so, this is the difference between those two things is customer satisfaction, and satisfaction; it's a very personal and subjective thing, she may satisfied with something, whereas someone listening to this podcast might say, “No, that's terrible, I'm very dissatisfied with exactly the same thing.” And so, understanding customer satisfaction and how we can affect it is really the most powerful lever that we have in curating experiences for our customers.

So, to answer the question succinctly, satisfaction is the difference between what you expect and what you receive, or what you perceive of the experience. So, if you're expecting to wait in line for a meal for half an hour, and you get your table 15 minutes in, you're going to be delighted, you’re going to be like, “Wow, this is fantastic. I was expecting to wait half an hour, and we're in early.”

Whereas conversely, if you're expecting to get seated at a restaurant straight away, and they make you wait 15 minutes, you're going to be very, very dissatisfied. And so, the same exact experience is delivered by the provider, you get seated in 15 minutes. But in one case, you're satisfied, and you're delighted, because your expectations were that it could be longer. And then the other case, you really disappointed because your expectations were that it would be shorter.

And so, as a brand, and this is where all your energy can be very effective if focused right is, all you can do is set your customers’ expectations at the right level and through that you affect their satisfaction. That might be a bit too textbook nerdy, so she can give some examples if you prefer.

Me: Yeah, I think an example would be good to kind of just cement it for the audience so that they really understand. I got to reading the theory part of it totally and I thought it was a brilliant definition. I just really wanted you to share that, but if you could give us an example, that would be even greater.

Anna shared that there are tons of examples. So, let's say you buy something online. And she bought a bar fridge recently. So, she bought a bar fridge, and it said it will be delivered in two days and so, her expectations are that in two days’ time the bar fridge will arrive. And then she got a message saying, “Please schedule your delivery.” And the only dates available were next week. So, 7 days from when she bought it, not two days. So, straightaway, she’s like, “Hey, I'm not happy with this, because I was expecting, and you told me that the fridge would be delivered in two days.” So, the only change that needs to happen there is that the brand selling the fridge should just tell her that the fridge won't be available for a week or perhaps even 10 days. And then her expectations are set at the right place, and she’s delighted with the outcome.

Me: Yeah, I suppose it's kind of like when we train our employees in organizations, and we’ll say that we should under promise and over deliver. And one of the things that I think impacts customer expectations greatly is what we communicate. And sometimes what we communicate - it's not the truth, or I don't know. Sometimes I think organizations communicate information that is incorrect intentionally, like it is their intention to exceed the customers’ expectations. So, they give them a reasonable time in their mind but then, when the actual experience is realized, what was communicated and what actually occurred, they're not correlating.

Anna stated that that's an excellent example. And to dig a little bit deeper into that, she thinks setting your customers’ expectations that are realistic or perhaps a level under which you know you can over perform is a really good strategy, with a little asterix on that, as long as you're doing that in an authentic way. Because consumers are smart and as soon as your consumer feels that you're trying to deceive them, that opens another can of worms, they're going to run for the hills because no one likes the feeling that they're being lied to.

However, as a brand, you have the ability to authentically communicate and to deliver information and this is something that's super interesting that there was a lot of research done in the 80s by Don Norman, if you know him, he's like one of the godfathers of design and have written amazing books over the years. But what came out of his research was that people are really open to changing their expectations when you provide them with authentic information.

So, coming back to our restaurant example, if she’s waiting in line for a table, and she’s expecting it will take a couple of minutes, but it's going to be 15. If the restaurant gives her authentic and clear information as to why it will be 15 minutes, and then perhaps a gesture to compensate her for my trouble, that negative experience or what could have been a negative experience actually shifts to being a really positive experience.

So, with the fridge, if someone simply sends an email and says, “We're really sorry, we typically try to deliver things in two days. But you've had public holidays and long weekends in Australia and so that's pushed out delivery times out, and it'll be a week, very sorry.”

That information, when it's communicated authentically has the power to reset her expectations as a consumer. And so, it's not about getting it perfect every time as a brand, you don't have to get it right every time.

It's like parenting; we're often so hard on ourselves when we do something kind of not quite right by our kids. But you can make it right, you can have an authentic conversation and provide the information with clarity and with transparency and that will have a really powerful effect and reset your customers’ expectations so they can still have a really good experience, even when it falls short of what they originally expected.

What is a Promise?

Me: Another great insight that I took from reviewing your book was there's a point in the book where you say the only reason anyone buys anything is to make their life better, which I suppose is almost the equivalent of people go into businesses to solve a problem. Most businesses were created with the intention of solving somebody's problem, whatever it is that your business solves. But what really intrigued me further to what you said in terms of making their lives better, is that the challenge to sell more reduces it down to two things showing the buyer that you're going to make their life better and delivering on your promise.

Now, could you define for our listeners what a promise is because I've been through many different customer service trainings in different industries, and I find that people are not clear on what a promise is. And they don't realize that you don't actually have to say the word I promise for the customer to view it as a commitment that you're making to fulfill something that they're requesting.

Anna stated that is such a great question and such an interesting pathway to explore. So, a promise is certainly not a contract. So, without even whether you explicitly and overtly know that you're making a promise to a customer or not, you are even if they don't sign a contract with you.

So for example, things like if you think about someone coming to your website for the very first time, in the first 10 seconds, that site visitor gets a sense of what your brand promise is, and that's made up of a few ingredients, it's made up of the styling on your website, your choice of imagery, your choice of font, your choice of colour, your logo, your hero value proposition tagline, all of those things combined into effectively, very quickly delivering a snapshot of what your brand promise is.

So maybe to correlate this to an example we'll all be familiar with. When you meet someone in person for the very first time, your subconscious mind processes a whole vast range of variables and you make a snap judgement, you go, “Yeah, this person is the kind of person that I would like to have a conversation with and maybe if that goes well, we'll go out for a coffee and maybe we could be friends.” Or “This person is just creepy; I'm going to run the other way. You know what I'm not having that this, a cup of coffee is not in our future.” And so, your subconscious mind is really good at doing that when we meet people in real life. And whether we think about it or not, we do exactly the same thing when we see a brand in a digital space.

And so, the brand promise is really the combination of all of those things and when you start looking for it, you'll notice it. So, when you go to a brand like Porsche, the imagery on the site, the particular choice of fonts and colours and the logo design, all look like a very expensive and exclusive brand. When you go to something like Kia, it's a much more approachable brand and this is all done through very subtle things like fonts and colours and the brand promise.

She works with high growth brands in Australia and out of New Zealand, and where they often will spend a lot of time and it's an easy thing to talk about, and a hard thing to execute on, is refining the value proposition. And so, that value proposition is the explicit articulation of how you're going to make someone's life better. And she finds where brands often get stuck; they get stuck in two ways.

One is that they think about the features of their product and don't recognize that features don't make someone else's life better. No one has a pair of Jimmy Choo heels because they have a high heel stiletto on them, they buy those heels, because of how those heels will make them feel, and how they will be perceived when they own that particular item.

And so, we forget this when we design our websites, and when we design our electronic marketing campaigns, and social media campaigns and so on, and we talk about features instead of what is the feeling? How really do you make someone's life better? She doesn't choose Skype or Zoom because they have a particular telephonic service with some grade of how fast they transmit her voice. She doesn't even know the details. So, she doesn't know what the technical specs for Zoom.

She chooses Zoom because it's easy to use and she can click one button and connect with someone on the other side of the world. And so, Apple is probably an amazing example of at scale when we first stopped talking about features and started talking about how the product makes our life better. And so, to come back to the original question, what is the brand promise that we make? It's all the subconscious things that someone will experience in the first 10 seconds on your website and that's made up of fonts and styling and colours and imagery, and also your value proposition that you articulate in that hero part of your website.

What is the ADORE Process and the Milestones in the Journey of That Process?

Me: So, that dovetails us nicely into the core of your book is based on the ADORE Process. Could you take our listeners through what that process is and what are the milestones in the journey of that process?

Anna stated that the ADORE Process and a few people have asked her what does ADORE stand for. And again, she’s like; actually, it stands for nothing. But in technology, everyone needs an acronym and so here we go, we've got an acronym called ADORE.

So, the ADORE Process looks exactly at how we form relationships as humans. So, as soon as she walks you through it, she'll be able to map that to, “Oh, yeah, that's exactly how I form relationships with anyone I meet in real life.” And it translates it into milestones which we can affect and tune in digital, and also milestones where you can measure the performance for your particular brand against each of the milestones.

And the milestones and there is six of them. The very first one is zero seconds. So, zero seconds is simply the opportunity to have a site visitor come to your website. So loosely speaking, it's all of your marketing activities, all of your social media, everything that you do to drive a stranger to your website, the moment that they land on your website, that’s zero seconds.

Then that first impression moment is the first 10 seconds that they're on your site and this is where they make a snap judgement, whether you like the fact or not people make snap judgments and they'll decide whether they're going to spend more time exploring your brand and getting to know your brand, or whether they're going to go to the next tab, and your closest competitor is always only ever in the next tab and sort of say, “No thanks, this isn't the brand for me.” So, 10 seconds is that first impression sort of moment, first date, if you like.

And another thing which she often sees when she works with brands is that they want to tell you their entire life story on that first date. You're like, hang on, I'd never do that in real life. But how is it okay in digital, or they'll lead with something like a “Book a call right now,” and ideally one that pops up on the way upside the moment that you land there and you're like, hang on a second. If she was meeting someone for the very first time and they went on a first date, and she said to the person sitting across from her, “Hey, you seem kind of nice. Do you want to move in and have seven kids together?”

So again, in person, we know how to moderate this, we know that relationships take a certain cadence, and we don't violate those things in real life. But we do on a website, we're perfectly happy to put a pop up that says, book a call right now, the minute that she lands on a website she’s never been to, like, “Hang on a minute, let me get to know your brand first. And once I know your brand, a little bit better than ask me that question.”

So, zero seconds, the arrival, 10 seconds is your first date, then three minutes, is that moment where someone has taken the time to actually get to know your brand a little bit more. So again, in human terms, it's probably that three to six month mark, where you're like, “Yeah, we've got to know each other a little bit, it feels about right, maybe now we'll have a conversation about moving in together.” But don't do that on the first date. And so, that three minute mark is that moment where someone has explored your brand. At this point, maybe they've looked at your features. At this point, maybe they've looked at, can I make this work for me. And if you've positioned those first few elements on your website in the right order, and in the right way, and you're respecting how someone forms a relationship with your brand, the very natural next step is for them to want to sign up, they'll want to try your product or service, they'll want to perhaps buy the first T shirt that you're selling, they're ready for that next step.

And so, that sign up moment, it's like moving in together, it's a definite sign of commitment. And it's super, super important to take note of that, because your customer is now saying, “I am making an active commitment to your brand.” And so, when you've got that, you know for sure you've got someone who's interested, someone who's spent the time getting to know you, they're a captive audience. The rest is easy, assuming that you've got a really good product or service, which most brands she works with have amazing products and services, and they are just not sure how to develop that relationship with their customers.

And so, to give an example, she had a brand that she was working with, and they literally after the signup process, they were losing 95% of their people. So, they were spending all the money on marketing, all of their branding and their brand promise and the way they told their story was all done super well, they were getting a lot of customers to sign up each month. And then it was like a 95% drop off. And it was like, “Oh my God, what's happening here.” And they changed a couple of really small things. And so, if you look at this part in the book, it will actually give you tangible tips for what to look for when things are going wrong, and what you can change. And this particular brand, they increase their revenue by $50,000 a month by changing a couple of buttons. So, these things do make a difference. And whether consciously or subconsciously, we do respond to digital, and to the formation of relationships with brands and digital, much like we do in real life when it's a human and a human interacting.

But we've got zero seconds, the arrival, we've got 10 seconds, which is your first date, we've got three minutes, which is where you've told your brand story, sign up, which is your first moment of active kind of commitment. And then after that it's easy street, all you then need to do is build into your product the right levers to create an upgrade, to create a repeat buy, to get the customer to pull more money out of their wallet and experience more and more of your product over time and so that's upgrade. And then ultimately where you want to drive your customers to if your growth strategy is based on forming relationships, and that loyal customer base is to get referrals. And referrals are really important because a referral from someone that you trust shortcuts that whole customer journey by about 60%. And so, people will take shortcuts on the getting to know you part and go straight to sign up if the recommendation comes from a trusted party.

So, that's basically the steps and in the book, in the ADORE Process part, which is the middle part of the book, it shows you for each of those steps, how do you measure success? So which of your website metrics do you look at to see whether you're performing well or not performing well. And that's important because when you make a change to your website, or you hire an agency to make some changes, you want to have tangible and objective proof that whatever updates you made are actually creating a positive effect on your conversion rate so that you're getting a good return on the investment that you’re putting in to developing those digital assets that you own.

App, Website or Tool that Anna Absolutely Can’t Live Without in Her Business

When asked about an online resource that she cannot live without in her business, Anna stated that she was thinking about this the other day, and really, honestly, the thing she can't live without is probably email but that's not going to be much help because everybody uses email. So, something she’s gotten into recently is a product called Shortform. And Shortform gives you a summary of some of the best books on the planet and the summaries are just fantastic. So, if you're starting out and you haven't read any books at all, Shortform might not be for you but if you've read a bunch of books, and you've got an interest in business books, or how to grow businesses, and you've read a few things, Shortform is excellent because it fills in the blanks, and really tells you very quickly what the difference between this book is, and other things, which you may have read.

So that's something she enjoys and they're always adding new books into their library there. And so, in like 10 minutes, you can get the gist of someone's amazing new ideas without reading a whole book so it's a little bit of a hack and that's something she’s enjoying. Other than that, she listens to podcasts, typically podcasts that are recommended by other people. So again, showing that once we get a good recommendation from someone, we do shortcut that whole decision making process and just go straight to, “Yes, this is the thing for me.” Probably, that email and Shortform would be her indispensable tools at the moment.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Anna

When asked about books that have had the biggest impact, Anna shared that she’s definitely been very impacted by books she read early in her career and these would be the classics, things like Rich Dad, Poor Dad: What the Rich Teach Their Kids About Money That the Poor and Middle Class Do Not by Robert T. Kiyosaki, the idea that things that you buy are either an asset or they're not an asset and the idea that you can actually design your life so that you're not dependent on a paycheck. So, that was super influential for her.

Other than that, Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion, Revised Edition by Robert Cialdini, she thinks if you're an entrepreneur, and you're designing product, and you're selling product, and you have an interest in understanding how do people make decisions and how do I, what levers do I have to influence them to make the decision that I want them to make? This is indispensable. And so, Robert Cialdini wrote the first edition of the book in the early 80s and it's still true today. And it's a fantastic book.

Other than that, Big Magic: Creative Living Beyond Fear by Elizabeth Gilbert is a really, really beautifully written book, and it personifies ideas and it talks about concept that as people, we inhabit these human forms, but ideas are these organisms that float around us, and an idea might come and tap you on the shoulder and if you're not ready for it, it's going to go ahead and find some other human hosts that's going to bring it to life. And so, when an idea pops into your head, it's really up to you to take that idea and nurture it and grow it into something that becomes a business. And if you're not prepared to do that, don't be surprised that someone else halfway across the world seemingly has the same idea and brings it to life. So, she just thought it was a beautifully written and lovely book. Heaps of others, but those are probably her top three picks for the moment.

What Anna is Really Excited About Now!

Anna stated that the biggest thing that's happening for them at the moment is that they're taking Digital Brand Romance and they're converting that into a SaaS product called Rammp. And so, people love reading books, and so on, but what she finds is that most people want a solution that is automated and that they can deploy to their business that will work for them when they're focusing on the other important things in their business.

And so, Rammp does that, it takes the principles that are outlined in the book, those six milestones and it connects to your website statistics and then it will show you each month what are the most impactful and lowest hanging fruit that you can address to improve the relationship with your customers, and thereby increase your conversion rates. So they're bringing that to life. If you look at the website today, it's still a landing page but they should be launching that at the end of June. So, that's definitely a very, very exciting thing that's happening.

The other very exciting thing, which is possibly only exciting to her is that she has finally found another gym that she’s excited to go to because she’s been in fitness limbo for the last couple of years, just kind of on maintenance and alive, she’s really looking for something that's going to be inspiring and she did that this morning. So, she’s super stoked about that.

Where Can We Find Anna Online

LinkedIn – Anna Harrison

Website – www.rammp.com

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Anna Uses

When asked about a quote or saying that she tend to revert to, Anna stated a 100% and you could see her right now, you’ll see that it’s written on a card and stuck to her computer and the quote is, “Merely do the work.” Some days you’re super motivated and you’re excited and everything is going really well, on those days it’s easy to do the work.

But some days, whatever, the stars have not lined up and you might feel a bit naa and you’re like, “Why am I even doing this, there’s so many competitors that are better, etc, etc.” And on those days, just put your head down and do the work, you started the business that you’re doing for good reasons, there is no one else in the world who is more passionate and better position to be working on what you’re working right now. And on the tough days, just put your head down and merely do the work. Life and business and pretty much everything we do is a marathon, it’s just a marathon and you’re doing a marathon, it’s just put one foot in front of the other and eventually, things brighten up, you got your inspiration back and you finish the race, or the run, or whatever it is that you were working on. So merely do the work.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• Digital Brand Romance: How to Create Lasting Relationships in a Digital World by Dr. Anna Harrison
• Rich Dad Poor Dad: What the Rich Teach Their Kids About Money That the Poor and Middle Class Do Not! by Robert T. Kiyosaki
• Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion, Revised Edition by Robert Cialdini
• Big Magic: Creative Living Beyond Fear by Elizabeth Gilbert

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Eric Vermillion is the CEO of Helpshift, a San Francisco based company that develops mobile customer support software that helps companies provide better customer support in mobile apps. Before Helpshift, Eric was instrumental in advancing BlueCat to one of Canada's most notable software exits, and also helped grow revenue at NICE Systems to over $1 Billion. He has also held sales and leadership roles at PTC, Tecnomatix and Triad Systems Corporation. Eric holds a Bachelor’s degree in management from Purdue University.

Questions

• We like to give our guest an opportunity to do their own introduction in their own words, can you just tell us a little bit about how you got to where you are today?
• Can you tell us a little bit about what Helpshift does?
• Do you see mobile applications advancing even more in the whole development of customer experience on a global level? Or do you find people are looking for more opportunities where they can have more face-to-face interactions and less interaction with the digital or the technological side of things?
• Metaverse, there are a lot of people who still have a little bit of apprehension in relation to that whole emergence of that, what it represents, how to interface with it. What are your thoughts on that? Do you think it's something that will become the norm? How do you think people can adjust to it feeling more comfortable because it's so different and generally speaking, human beings just don't adjust to change very readily.
• Could you share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website, or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business?
• Could you also share with our audience, maybe one or two books that have had the biggest impact on you? It could be a book that you read recently, or even one that you read a long time ago, but it still has impacted you in a very great way.
• We have a lot of listeners who are business owners and managers, who feel they have great products and services, but they lack the constantly motivated human capital. If you were sitting across the table from that person, what's the one piece of advice that you would give them to have a successful business?
• What's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about - either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you will tend to revert to this quote, it kind of helps to get you back on track if for any reason you got derailed or just kind of helps to get you back refocused.

Highlights

Eric’s Journey

Eric shared that he spent his entire career in the world of software, pretty good chunk of it on the sales end of things. He kind of got lucky coming out of Purdue University, when all his friends were taking jobs at places like John Deere and Caterpillar and Anderson Consulting, I found the Bay area software company to join and kind of fell in love with technology and software. So, he’s spent his career helping people use technology to create value. And he’s spent a big chunk of it in the world of customer service, he was at NICE for 8 years and got to be a part of things when kind of this whole omni channel trend happened. After he left NICE, he did a couple of other software plays in the world of identity management and IT security with blue cat, he found his way back and spent the last 3 years in Helpshift trying to really redefine what good customer service looks like for mobile apps and using more mobile devices more effectively.

What Does Helpshift do?

When asked about what Helpshift does, Eric shared that if you think of the your mobile phone, you probably engage with a lot of mobile apps on a day to day basis. Most people do and that's a trend that is rapidly increasing. They help brands use that mobile app to create essentially an orchestration tool for consumers to drive a very elegant customer experience. So, when you're in the mobile app you got typically it's the mobile app knows who you are, there's some context to the situation. And so, their customers are able to really provide their consumers with a much more elegant logical flow within the mobile app, allowing them to really self-serve much more effectively and by the time they actually get to an agent or human if they need to, because it's a more complex problem, or they’re a blue-chip customer. A lot of the problems already been solved, the context is there for the agents, so they can become a bit more like a concierge or a personal assistant than then the traditional view of what we would think of as a customer service agent.

Mobile Applications Advancing to Develop Customer Experience

Me: Do you see mobile applications advancing even more in the whole development of customer experience on a global level? Or do you find people are looking for more opportunities where they can have more face-to-face interactions and less interaction with the digital or the technological side of things?

Eric stated that those are two separate interesting questions. He thinks after what we've all been through in the last couple of years with COVID, he'd be surprised if there's anyone in the world that isn't craving a little bit more face-to-face interaction. So, he does think people want that, but he’s not sure that customer service is the place where they're striving for more kind of face to face, human to human interaction.

People are busy, people's schedules have changed and evolved a lot over the last couple of years, people tend to do a lot more working remotely, they tend to have schedules that are not very standard and typical, so they want to be able to find resolution to their problems whenever they want, wherever they want, at whatever time of day they want and that's something that he thinks companies are going to have to continue to adapt to.

And one thing that we know is true is that there were 2 million mobile apps that were created last year and there'll be more than that that are created this year. People tend to carry their mobile device with them, all the time 24/7, for most of us it's sitting next to our bed even at night. And so, it is this tool that's on our person 24 hours a day and when used properly, it can be an incredibly powerful tool for accessing support and creating a support engagement that really fits your needs and your schedule as a consumer, whenever and wherever you want.

He also thinks that when you think about some of the other trends that are going on in the world, like the emergence of this thing, everyone's calling the metaverse, other kind of distributed commerce technologies, like blockchain and web3, and other digital commerce trends that are happening in the world, most of those actually are accessed through mobile devices and through mobile apps as well. So, it's a trend that he thinks would be hard to find any reason that it's not going to continue to grow and kind of grow exponentially.

Metaverse, How Can People Adjust to it Feeling More Comfortable Because It’s So Different

Me: I'm glad you mentioned the metaverse, because there are a lot of people who still have a little bit of apprehension in relation to that whole emergence of that, what it represents, how to interface with it. What are your thoughts on that? Do you think it's something that will become the norm? How do you think people can adjust to it feeling more comfortable because it's so different and generally speaking, human beings just don't adjust to change very readily.

Eric stated that all very good and fair points. He thinks that a lot of people's view of the metaverse is driven by the images, or the headlines that they see about broken virtual reality experiences, they think the metaverse as kind of a 3D VR kind of gaming environment and to a certain extent, it largely is in 2022, but the evolution of it is happening very, very fast.

And for him, he envision this world, not so many years from now, the technology is there to make this happen right now, where maybe he has a meeting with someone who is sitting in Japan, speaks only Japanese, someone who's in Brazil that speaks only Portuguese, someone in France who speaks only French, and himself in a room having a meeting, in a virtual environment in real time collaborating on some project where they all understand each other, and they can effectively communicate and collaborate in a way, that's just not possible today, and kind of a purely physical world.

And so, he thinks there's just so many applications for it like that really impacted us in a positive way, in a professional environment, in an educational environment, from a healthcare perspective that gets taken granted a lot today when people just think of the metaverse is kind of this scary 3D video game. And all of those things that he just described, of course, are also going to have commerce that comes alongside of them and ownership and digital rights that around and a lot of that is being handled today or will likely be handled through blockchain technology.

And so, you have this kind of parallel digital existence that happens with all of this commerce, would be naive to think that that's not going to create a lot of support issues and a lot of support challenges. And jumping from that world, out into the more physical world to pick up the phone and make a phone call or send someone an email is highly impractical when you think about it. So, he thinks support tools are going to have to evolve as well to be able to handle some of those changes.

App, Website or Tool that Eric Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business

When asked about an online resource that he cannot live without in his business, Eric stated that it's probably pretty boring, but he spent a big chunk of his day in G Suite, from kind of managing the calendar to all the collaboration that happens over the tools. So that's a pretty boring one because they spend a lot of time talking about mobile apps, he would maybe add a bonus that he travels a lot and he'd really struggle if he didn't have his American Airlines app, that's kind of how he gets from place to place anymore. So that's one that he tends to use a great deal as well.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Eric

When asked about books that have had the biggest impact, Eric stated that he’s a big fan of Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don’t by Jim Collins, that's just that's one of those timeless books, the concept of the whole hedgehog principle and really having that one thing that you're laser focused on, and the whole organization is laser focused on, that you want to be known for. As well as the concept of having the right people on the bus, even if you don't know where they will sit. Those are just concepts that resonates with him very well with him, and philosophies that he tends to use and in his own management style.

On a more kind of non-business level, he’s a big fan of Bob Goff as well. He's got a very fascinating story. His first book, which is called Love Does: Discover a Secretly Incredible Life in an Ordinary World, is still his favourite of the ones that he's written. He's written a few since that he thinks that was probably 10 years old at this point. But he tends to really love experiences, he thinks Bob does a great job sharing interesting experiences and the lessons you can take from each one in an extremely interesting way.

Advice for Business Owners and Managers to Have a Successful Business

Me: We have a lot of listeners who are business owners and managers, who feel they have great products and services, but they lack the constantly motivated human capital. If you were sitting across the table from that person, what's the one piece of advice that you would give them to have a successful business?

Eric stated that you know that you're a coach, you're not just a manager. He saw this clip in the last few days of Nick Saban, the Alabama football coach that's highly regarded and very well known. He stepped in and prevented a player from sharing a piece of cake with another player. So, they have this spring game every year, where they play against their own teammates, and the losing team gets beans and franks and the winning team gets a steak dinner with chocolate cake. And the winning teammate wanted to share a piece of cake with his really good friend that was on the losing team and Saban saw it and shut it down.

And he just loves that because losing hurts, and it should hurt and that's how you know you don't want to do it anymore. And he thinks people sometimes need to realize that they have an obligation as a leader, as a manager, to also be a coach and not just a manager. His job is really to help everyone who works for him to perform at a high level, and to help prepare them for their next job or even help them get their next job. And he thinks too many managers forget that often. And you can't buy your way out of that responsibility no matter how much you're paying for someone.

And then in this world where human capital and good human capital is very hard to come by, and often very expensive, losing sight of that responsibility to really coach and help a person be prepared for whatever's next, it's one of those things you take for granted if you're just trying to sometimes pay top dollar for people because you think that'll automatically make them the best at things, which is not the case.

Me: I totally agree. One of the things that we talk about a lot as well as a customer service trainer is that the most important role of the leader is to grow and develop people because as you mentioned before, you want to have people around you who are robust, who are efficient, who are intrinsically motivated to do what they're employed to do, but at the same time, they feel like they have some purpose and for them to feel like they have some purpose, they have to feel like they're a part of a bigger goal other than collecting a salary. So, I do quite agree with you that leaders are coaches even though a lot of them may not look at themselves as a coach, I like that phrase that you put it as.

What Eric is Really Excited About Now!

Eric shared that from a people perspective, the pandemic has created a lot of confusion around what work looks like and you hear a lot of companies talking about they're going to be remote only or they're going to be office only or they're going to be hybrid or like lots of different things that people are calling this thing. He spent most of his career as a remote employee and it's hard, it is not something that there's a kind of a playbook or a handbook out there to do. And it was harder before Zoom and messaging and always available internet, but it's still hard.

And he believes very strongly that companies need to have a framework for expectations and that's something that they've been continuing to work on a lot as a company. Expectations on what's expected of you as an employee, and that is independent of physical location, that is just what's expected of you as an employee, he doesn't really care where you sit, if you're doing those things, he doesn't care where you sit. He doesn't care if you're physically in an office or remote. If you're following those guidelines and principles of what they stand for as an organization and using the technology to do that, if you're doing it like that, he doesn't really care where you work from. He thinks a lot of companies think that they can kind of hand you a bag of cool technology and software, and it will make you a great remote worker but it just unfortunately doesn't always work that way, you have to teach people what's expected, inspect it regularly and then drag them back into the office when it's too hard or people are just not able to kind of cope with that very unstructured environment that you have at home, not everyone can do it. And frankly, not everyone wants to and so that's professionally.

On a personal level, he did get a Peloton a few months ago so he’s been loving that and trying to take off his own COVID-19.

Where Can We Find Eric Online

Website - www.helpshift.com/

LinkedIn – Helpshift

LinkedIn – Eric Vermillion

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Eric Uses

When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Eric shared that his favourite quote is the Wayne Gretzky quote, or at least he thinks it's widely attributed to Wayne Gretzky, which is “You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.”

Me: All right. And that's a good one. How do you think people can apply that in this whole environment that we're operating in? As you mentioned, we're emerging out of this global pandemic, even though we're not fully emerged out of it, people are trying to just kind of get their life back into some form of semblance. So, with all of that in play and there's also I think a lot of people are still experiencing a lot of fear and anxiety because they don't know what to expect. How do you think that quote can help people to really raise the bar?

Eric stated that he thinks it can be a motivating factor for you. He’s definitely a person that's fairly easily amused and he’s very much an experience person, he doesn't particularly care about stuff and things, and he thinks for a lot of people over the last couple of years, they've had to figure out more interesting ways to entertain themselves versus going out and kind of buying stuff and looking more for satisfaction through material things. Every day is really a new opportunity to learn something, pain tends to create intelligence, practice creates perfection and that kind of galvanizes you.

He thinks that every person that he meets is a new lesson, every person that he has had an opportunity to help in some way is literally currency for him, it makes him feel wealthy, even if it doesn't add a penny to his own bank account. And every time he gets a chance to experience a new city or a new restaurant, or make a new friend, it makes him feel wealthier than the day before. And he think that's one of those things that every one of us can remember, every one of us that's above ground and breathing has all those opportunities every single day to like add those experiences, add those things that do make you wealthier in a non-monetary way, and never miss a chance to take one of those shots and being aware of that he thinks is an incredibly motivating thing.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don’t by Jim Collins
• Love Does: Discover a Secretly Incredible Life in an Ordinary World by Bob Goff

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Ernie Harker is a creative branding mastermind. He recently published “Your Brand Sucks,” a book that reveals why most companies get branding wrong and reveals the step by step formula he has used to assist dozens of companies define a clear image and personality for their brands. One of his greatest successes was to help revitalize an old-western retail chain into a $3 billion high-energy adventure brand. He leads workshops, gives presentations, and offers an online masterclass to help organizations define and develop remarkable brands.

Self-diagnosed with Hyperactive Productivity Disorder, Ernie loves to draw, trail run, compete in triathlons, wake board, do yoga, lift weights, camp, mountain bike, watch movies, eat junk food, and spend time with his family and 7 brothers. Asked him what his real life allergies to exercise on the TV travel show he hosted.

Buckle up because his dynamic personality and passion for brand development will have you racing to build your brand. His friends call him Ernburn, so call him Ernburn!

Questions

• Could you share little bit about their journey and how you got to where you are today. Could you share that?
• Could you maybe share with us three important things you think our company needs to have in order to really have, at least gives off the impression of being a brand that is for their customer?
• Are there maybe two or three personality traits that you think an employee or a leader needs to have in an organization in order to really develop a brand that is highly associated in a positive way?
• Could you share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely cannot live without in your business?
• Could you also share with us maybe one or two books that have had the biggest impact on you? It could be a book that you read a very long time ago, or even one that you read recently, but it has a great impact on you.
• We have a lot of listeners who are business owners and managers who feel sometimes that they have great products and services, but they lack the constantly motivated human capital. If you're sitting across the table from that person, what's the one piece of advice that you would give them to have a successful business?
• Could you share with us what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something that you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote, it kind of helps to get you back on track or get you back focus if for any reason you get derailed.

Highlights

Ernie’s Journey

Ernie shared that like most of our guests, they always start on the path that never seems to be like, if I were to rewind my life; I never would have thought I would have ended up where I'm at. He wanted to be an illustrator or an animator when he was a kid. And so, he was an illustration, he drew all the time, and studied illustration at the university. And when he got out of university, he got a job for an Ad agency. And he was doing concept development and that's just pre visualization of either TV commercials or print ads, or online ads or whatever. He would sketch out what a creative director or an art director would have in mind and then they would show those drafts, those pieces of art to the client.

And what he learned is that he learned to become really good at visualizing language. He wasn't a writer and so he had to clearly communicate and very quickly communicate an idea visually. And so illustration led to storyboards, which led to TV commercials, radio commercials, interactive design, then print design. And so, now he was all over the place doing all kinds of creative development stuff. But that led him into brand development because branding is such a visual experience, we often think of branding as like colours, and logos and graphic design and things like that. But it's also a lot more personality conveyed through language, visual language, and verbal language, tone, vocabulary and things like that. And so, that's kind of how he started as an illustrator, and developed into a branding guy. So it took a while.

Three Important Things a Company Needs to Have That Gives the Impression a Brand is For Their Customer

Me: Now, branding is very important to customer experience and your brand as you said, it's not just from a marketing perspective, the image that comes out in your advertisements, or any form of posts that you put up on any social media platform, but could you maybe share with us three important things you think a company needs to have in order to really have, at least give off the impression of being a brand that is for their customer?

Ernie shared that he’s so grateful that Yanique is championing the customer experience because so many businesses focus on their business and not the customer experience, their business will be fine if they just focus on the customer experience. And so, congratulations and thank you for doing that.

There's a singular lens. Every brand should have a singular lens that they use to focus the customer experience and those are all the touch points that a customer would see, hear, read, notice, anything like that. So, those are all touch points. Well, the customer experience is a conscious decision to filter all those touch points to reinforce a specific personality of the company.

So really, we're trying, with all these customer experiences, we're trying to engage and attract a customer, make them fall in love with a business, you can't make anybody fall in love with the business unless there's a personality associated with that business. And so, defining what your brand lens or personality is really about, will then help you choose the visual elements, the pictures, colours, textures, all those kinds of things.

And the verbal elements, the language, vocabulary, the tone to give that customer the glimpse into the organization's personality, they go, “Oh, my gosh, I love this company,” not just “Oh, I recognize the company.” which is a lot of branding oftentimes, as he can differentiate between one company and another company, visually, but it needs to be more than that, it needs to be more of a personal, emotional connection, like “I really am attracted to this company.” And that's done like for a convenience store chain.

He was in involved a convenience store chain business for a long time. And what's neat about the convenience store business is that it's one of the very few businesses that have customers come in on a daily or multiple times per week. Like banks don't do that, retail locations don't do that. Even McDonald's, well, maybe some people that go every day, but convenience stores like they're buying fuel, customers are buying fuel, they're buying snacks, they're buying drinks, whatever.

And so the environment needs to be inviting. What is it about the walls, the floors, the interior design, the extra design that reinforces the personality of the business? And then of course, you have the person behind the counter, that Maverik, the convenience store that he was developing a brand for. They called them adventure guides because they had an adventurous personality; they wanted to make it feel like people were going to the great outdoors when they would come to a store. And so, they'd call them adventure guides.

So titles, the way customers were greeted. So you have this visual experience when people come in and then you have the vocabulary of like a greeting and you meet somebody who is an adventure guide instead of a clerk, or a teller, or a whatever. And then of course, all the marketing and advertising goes on top of that customer experience. I hope that answers the question in a roundabout way.

Three Personality Traits an Employee or Leader Needs to Have in an Organization in Order to Develop a Brand

Me: Oh, definitely it does. So there are quite a few things that you mentioned that I am definitely 100% on board with. I think sometimes also when people hear the word brand, it's like brand is highly associated with marketing, not necessarily customer experience. Are there maybe two or three personality traits that you think an employee or a leader needs to have in an organization in order to really develop a brand that is highly associated in a positive way? Because your brand can have a negative image and your brand can have a positive image. But what are some key things that you would need to ensure or would you say it should be linked to your core values? And if that's the case, what should be your strategy where recruitment is concerned?

Ernie stated that there are 3 things he’s going to say off the top of his head. One is Humility. And what he means by humility is oftentimes organizational leaders or employees think they know best. They have their own personal opinion and they think their personal opinion is stronger than anybody else's opinion or research. So, humility.

Curiosity is the second one. Like he wants to know what their customers really think. He wants to learn as much as he can. So, humility gives us opening in our brains and our hearts for change and curiosity leads us to find the material to fill in that empty space that's relative, that's applicable.

And then the third thing is, he thinks Passion. There's so much boringness going on in the world today. He wants to be surrounded by people who are enthusiastic about what they do. It doesn't matter what they do, he could care less, but he cares about the enthusiasm and the passion by which they're engaged. So, there's too many retail locations or retailers, with employees who are completely disengaged, they are there counting the minutes between breaks, can't wait to get home and so the customer experience is a huge, like empty space in those locations, those businesses. So enthusiasm, he just wants to feel some love, some passion. He doesn't care if he’s ordering a Big Mac, he wants someone to be excited about it for him. So those are the three things humility, curiosity, and passion or enthusiasm.

App, Website or Tool that Ernie Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business

When asked about an online resource that he cannot live without in his business, Ernie stated that Photoshop. He’s learning to use HubSpot because he’s been terrible as a CRM guy. He needs to do a better job with that. But he does so many things in Photoshop, because he’s image oriented, whether it's illustration or even graphic define online, banners, video thumbnails, and all those. If he didn't have Photoshop, he'd be a stick in the mud.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Ernie

Ernie shared that the book that has had one of the most profound impacts on him is The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Tim Ferriss, and he has referenced it so much that his wife gives him a hard time about it. On his nightstand, he has a set of Scriptures, the Bible, this is his go to, that's his big go to book. So, he got his scriptures, and he’s a faith based person, very religious. But next to that for years was Tim Ferriss’ book, The 4-Hour Workweek and so he would wreck ideas from The 4-Hour Workweek and his wife would say, “Oh, are you quoting brother Ferriss again?” Because it's like he's almost like a prophet. But some of the things that he talked about that are profound to him is the Pareto principle, the 80/20 rule, becoming more efficient with your time.

He also talked a lot about multiple careers instead of retirement, and working for the future, we're designed to be very creative people. So, why do we work like crazy in one career, and then hope one day we'll retire and not have to work, that's crazy. He doesn't ever want to stop working; he wants to keep doing fun, cool stuff. And so, the idea of multiple careers and mini retirements. Well, he could talk for a whole hour about Tim Ferriss and his teachings. But that was the most profound book.

Advice for Business Owners and Managers to Have a Successful Business

When asked about advice he would give to business owner or manager to have a successful business, Ernie shared that he would love to be able to incorporate employee compensation with customer experience so that the employees are rewarded, their compensation is structured on  how much the customers enjoy their interaction, how much they appreciate the interaction. So that instead of like sales based, like always commissioned based, play the long game of, “I want to hire people that are compensated when customers or potential customers have a really good experience with them.” And then also provide that employee with the resources to wow their customers. Like being able to send a note, being able to send a very small inexpensive gift, things like that. So they're empowered and they're compensated based on their customer experience, because he knows that there will be people, that the customers will always come back to a really good experience.

What Ernie is Really Excited About Now!

Ernie shared that he has been going bonkers over a YouTube channel that teaches kids to draw. So he created a YouTube channel, he spends way too much time on it. But he gets to produce, he gets to do the drawing, he does the lesson. And then he edits the video. And so all the fun things and creative production that he enjoys, as well as kind of inspiring and igniting the excitement of drawing which is affordable to everybody. It's within the reach of the poorest of poor people, get a piece of charcoal and a log, and you can draw. Pencil and paper, it's super, super inexpensive. But the ability to express creativity with pencil and paper, and an iPad and procreate or whatever is just so empowering for him. And so, he’s done 100 episodes in the past 2 years and the channel, it's like 4000 subscribers, it's not very big but it has been so much fun to make these videos and just have fun being creative in the YouTube world.

Where Can We Find Ernie Online

LinkedIn – Ernie Harker

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Ernie Uses

When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Ernie shared that he was writing his book, Your Brand Sucks, which was very, very hard for him, he has ADD and so kind of staying focused on that was really, really challenging. And he'd often want to give up. He’d been involved in multiple businesses, a lot of entrepreneurial businesses, and none of them met the financial goals that he had, like he wanted to build these businesses and have it sell millions of dollars worth of product or whatever, but most of the time, they just kind of broke even.

And while sharing his disappointment, his frustration with a co-worker of his, an executive with him. He was listening to him (Ernie) talk about like his TV series didn't work out; he took longer to run his iron man than he thought he should, his children's book didn't sell very well. He like looked at him like, “Dude, you get credit for trying.” “You get credit for trying.” And what he thinks is impactful to him about that little mantra is that it kind of reshapes his definition of success, of not relying on success of things he can't control.

Like, for example, if he wrote a book, he has very little control whether or not it sells a million copies, if it gets popular, if Oprah loves it. But he has 100% control whether or not he finishes writing the book. So, if he were to focus his success, his definition of success on things that he can control, then he could be very productive, he can write the book. Because the temptation is he’s going to give up because nothing that he’s done so far has met his definition of success so why even try? Instead, he did that. And so, he can do it again. Even though the sales or whatever, the financial numbers aren't spectacular, he can look back on his life and go, “I did a lot of really great stuff that I was passionate about whether or not it made money or not.” So, you get credit for trying.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• Your Brand Sucks: How to ignite a brand that doesn’t by Ernie Harker
• The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Tim Ferriss

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Anyone working with customer journeys will deeply resonate with a struggle to align everyone around a shared understanding of the customer experience. As Co-Founder and CEO of TheyDo, the customer journey management solution for enterprises, Jochem van der Veer is pushing the boundaries of modern CX management, enabling true cross-team collaboration in today's increasingly virtual world.

Having worked in interaction and UX design for 10+ years, Jochem is well-versed in the power of truly walking in your customer’s shoes and passionate about helping companies transform towards a customer-centric way of working. His latest SaaS venture, TheyDo, is a platform that enables companies to visualize, standardize, and scale journey management so that their business goals align with customer needs.

Questions

• Could you tell us a little bit about how you got to where you are today?
• Could you tell us maybe one or two things that are key performance indicators if a company is trying to let's say, do a remap or maybe they've never done it before they're trying to figure out what is the journey of their customer? What do they want the journey to be?
• Have you found that things have changed a lot, especially in terms of customers’ expectations since the pandemic? What are some of the things that your organization is doing that helps to help organizations kind of emerge out of this global event we all had to experience.
• Could you give me an example, you can use any random industry, but just give us an example of what are some of the things that you do as an organization that can help your clients to master their customer experience and increase customer loyalty?
• Could you share with us what is the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely cannot live without in your business?
• Could you share maybe one or two books that have had the biggest impact on you, it could be a book that you read a very long time ago, or even one that you've read recently, but it has had a great impact on you.
• Could you also share what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? It could be something you're working on to develop yourself or your people?
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Do you have a quote or saying that during times of adversity or challenging you tend to revert to this quote, it kind of helps to get you back on track or get you back refocus if for any reason you got derailed.

Highlights

Jochem’s Journey

When asked about his journey, Jochem shared that it ties into what we brought or speak about when we talk about customer experience. He has a background in interaction design, UX design and before they started TheyDo, they were consulting services, and basically helping big companies and Fortune 500 kind of like size to transform their way of work and really bring customer experience, which usually happens or was an add-on for customer service. But bring it to the front and allow everyone to see how their work impacts the customer experience and set up processes like design thinking or instill the way of working around journeys in a company so that everyone can participate in customer experience.

And what they noticed was there wasn't a good solution out there to turn journey maps, or insights that you got from let's say, customer service or your voice of customer programme into all your journeys and make sure that everyone could stay aligned other than journeys that are usually created as flat maps to understand part of the customer experience.

So, that's when they started to build something on their own, for them, for their little consulting firm, which they use to do for helping their customers until some of those larger firms like today, they have Johnson and Johnson, NCR, those big firms that really want to deliver a great customer experience across the board, wanted to license their product. And today, they are an enterprise solution and they are just getting started on their growth trajectory.

Key Performance Indicators for a Company to Find Out What is the Journey for Their Customer

Me: Now, customer journey mapping is very important for any business. It's definitely something we talk about all the time. Could you tell us maybe one or two things that are key performance indicators if a company is trying to let's say, do a remap or maybe they've never done it before they're trying to figure out what is the journey of their customer? What do they want the journey to be?

Jochem stated that in terms of performance indicators, he likes to think about like what is the maturity of an organization as a whole, how they can actually work, let's say journey centric or customer centric, but customer centricity is really like a no brainer today, it's really about how to set up a process that works for you as a company and they typically see that comes in stages, you start with like, there's a bunch of teams doing some journeys, figuring out the customer experience through the lens of a customer journey, on a project level, but at some point, to start to bring these things together and start to align across different teams using journeys as the way to do that.

And that's the early sign of, hey, the company is starting to get ready to get basically reorganized around the journeys, around the customer experience and that happens naturally, and that's the moment that they start looking for tools like them or platform like them. But the performance indicator really is about we want to deliver a great customer experience, whatever that means, like Amazon has maybe speed and low prices is their differentiating customer experience where others might go really into the feeling, the part of the experience. So, that is the highest strategic goal of a company, then you need a process and a way of working around your journeys that unifies everyone to work as one.

Things that Your Company is Doing to Help Organizations to Emerge out the Global Event

Me: Have you found that things have changed a lot, especially in terms of customers’ expectations since the pandemic? What are some of the things that your organization is doing that helps to help organizations kind of emerge out of this global event we all had to experience.

Jochem shared that a funny story is that they incorporated, or they started TheyDo right before news started hitting, they are based in Europe. But before the news started hitting there, so they weren't really aware of what this was going to be and they were building a journey management solution to align across the silos in the organization, and across the different teams and keeping everyone in sync with the customer journey.

So, in one way COVID was a great opportunity for them to understand if they were on to something, because if there's one thing that happened in a lot of organizations that the silos that typically are because they have divisions, and each have their own KPIs and focus areas. And we all know that and don't want to work like that, but they do.

But the pandemic showed that within those silos, there were islands, people were forced to work from home if they weren't doing that already, and found it even harder to stay aligned and use more meetings, more PowerPoints, more dashboards, more whiteboard collaboration to stay in sync.

And they actually saw was that lucky for them, this problem became so apparent that it propelled them into a more rapid growth than they expected because people understood that to stay in sync, they needed better tools to align around the customer experience then their dashboards or their whiteboards could offer.

Helping Clients to Master Their Customer Experience and Increase Customer Loyalty

Me: Okay, so we were kind of talking about the KPIs as it relates to customer experience and the journey mapping process. So, I was about to get into asking you what would be some of your recommendations, if a company really wants to, you speak about in your bio that your organization TheyDo, focuses on that whole journey mapping strategy and standardizing. Could you give me an example, you can use any random industry, but just give us an example of what are some of the things that you do as an organization that can help your clients to master their customer experience and increase customer loyalty?

Jochem stated that let's take banking as an example and they believe like the best and the modern companies of the future, they will work journey centric, and to work as one focusing on improving the customer experience. And what that basically means is that they're providing a platform so you can not only map out all their journeys, design them, maintain them, manage them, basically. But also create a unified framework where all these journeys add up to the customer experience, and then start to work from insight to implementation. And he'll get to that in a second. But let's take banking for an example.

So, let's say you’re a big bank and you have all these different products, you have mortgages, you have personal loans, you have bank accounts, of course, and you have all these different financial products.

So, looking at the customer experience, you can imagine for all the different products, there are so many different journeys that you can understand or try to understand how people, customers, non-customers are trying to solve their problems by products or in the case of a mortgage, for instance, get a mortgage. But as you would understand, you want to build a system that actually is scalable, and the customer experience should really be something that you can do together. So in any product the bank offers the user, the customer, the non-customer becoming a customer probably needs to identify herself. So, who are you and what are you doing?

So, let's say they do that digitally so the journey of online identification, that's a little journey, it has a few steps, do this, do that, customer experience this, they confirm, they upload a passport, and they feel happy that they've achieved something. It's a very basic example but it's a journey. But in the customer experience, from the bank perspective, whether a team is focused on mortgages as a product or on personal loans, they're typically not talking to each other, not even connected. But as you can understand the journey of online identification impacts the customer experience in all these different departments.

So, if the bank can then set up a journey framework, unifying all these journeys through the lens of the customer experience, but also dissected through all the different products or domains, or maybe even the regions they are servicing, you can actually create that unified framework. And they're basically providing you with the building blocks and the frameworks to set up a journey management system, and then basically, manage your journeys the way you manage products.

Me: Thank you so much for that example. I think it's important for us to give practical examples so that our listeners can really navigate and marry what you're saying into their own businesses so they can get a better understanding of how this works.

App, Website or Tool that Jochem Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business

When asked about an online resource that he cannot live without in his business, Jochem stated that that's a very good one. He’ll be a little bit transparent here. So, what they're doing is they are the core users of data; they have a journey management setup on their own. But they're actually building a tool for the largest organizations across the globe, enterprise. But they are scaling, so, they're a little bit smaller than the enterprise. Now they're the core users of their own platform. So, they have their journeys mapped out, their journey hierarchy, they prioritize within them.

But they also use Notion and he thinks that is like the shared brain in their team where they document align on a more granular level, then he would say on the journey, really go into details of certain aspects of what they're building, how they're building it, their processes live there, way of working, part of their HR, their company handbook, all that stuff that's living in Notion, and that's the place to go for a sync communication for them when it gets more detailed than the opportunities in a customer journey.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Jochem

When asked about books that have had the biggest impact, Jochem shared that there's a few that comes to mind. So, what has very big impact on him or had a big impact on him, and it was when he was still a student, he was like, 19, or 20 years old, and he read Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience (Harper Perennial Mordern Classics from Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. And even though it might be a little bit outdated today, there are so much new theories about getting into that flow state and what it means and how to experience that or how to get into that flow state.

For the first time in his life, he realized like, hey, there's this mind of mine that is like a muscle and you can train it to focus it on specific parts and really enjoy the process of doing and as a designer, and today, as a CEO of a company, he still believes that getting into that flow state and really enjoying the process of making, of manifesting, of creating is something he learned from that book and he holds very dear. So, that is one that comes to mind a little while back.

And more recently, he’s really into productivity as a leader of a company you have to manage so many different things, juggle a lot of balls at the same time, also have a family of two kids, maybe there will be a third at some point in time, so a lot of balls in the air. But all the getting things done or other productivity methods seem to fail, take into account that there's always more to do and time feels as there's more time available to do more things. So, he’s reading now Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Morals by Oliver Burkeman. And that basically takes a different status as you have basically 4000 weeks to live give and take……weeks to live in your life.

And it's okay to let go certain things and really enjoy the moment and take a different stab at productivity. And he really likes to read that because it gives him peace of mind. So, that's another one, it's doing good for him today.

What Jochem is Really Excited About Now!

Jochem shared that the most exciting thing that's going on right now is making the transition from being a designer, he loves to observe how people behave, especially in a large organization, how they collaborate and how we can improve that, especially from a customer experience standpoint that has been his focus for the last he would say more than a decade almost. But for the first time in their company, they now have a full fledged product team that also includes a designer, product designer, and his role is not in the product anymore, it's really on the business itself, more than it was ever. And he’s transitioning in that role, learning, trying to become that support for the whole team, for not only the managers, but also for everyone in the company to say, “Hey, we're going to do this together and I have your back.” And that role is entirely new to him. So, figuring it out as they go. But that's the exciting part of creating this journey management business.

Where Can We Find Jochem Online

LinkedIn – Jochem van der Veer

Website – http://www.theydo.io

Website – http://www.theydo.io/podcast/

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Jochem Uses

Jochem stated that he’s not always thinking about quotes, but one that comes to mind often is and he thinks it was Picasso, it's attributed to him most is like, “The meaning of life is to find your gift, and the purpose of life is to give it away.” And he loves that phrasing.

Me: The meaning of life is to find your gift and the purpose of life is to give it away. It's really profound. What is your interpretation of that quote?

Jochem stated that you can say it in the altruistic way but as everyone is today, also working in business, he takes it a little bit differently. He really enjoys being good at some stuff and he also knows his own limitations. But bringing out what you're really good at to the world is such a nice way to enjoy your days, instead of being only goal oriented. We have to perform, we have to deliver, we have to drive revenue, we have to create customer experiences that people love and enjoy is actually the act of doing every day waking up, getting to do the work, whatever the work is you do and enjoying that, enjoying the process of doing that is amazing. And if you found your gifts, whether you're working in CX or customer service, and you really love what you're doing, then basically you are giving away your gift. And he thinks that's an amazing way to go about your day.

Me: It's like you're living a life that is filled with passion. And you're passing that passion on to others.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience (Harper Perennial Modern Classics by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi
• Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Morals by Oliver Burkeman

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Gadi Shamia is the CEO and Co-Founder of Replicant, a conversational AI platform founded on the belief that machines are ready to have useful, complex conversations that will transform the way they interact with the world. Prior to Replicant, Gadi helped take Talkdesk, a $10B contact centre software market leader from a seed-stage company to a Unicorn startup as its COO, and played a key role in architecting and executing its 20X growth in people and revenue.

Questions

• Could you share with our listeners a little bit about your journey?
• Can you share with us a little bit about how organizations are using AI to enhance customer experience? And have you seen that change more drastically, especially in the last 2 to 3 years?
• Could you also share with us how the intelligent voice automation is helping to improve business outcomes for companies who don't have enough manpower to keep up with demand?
• What's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business?
• Could you share with us maybe one or two books that have had the biggest impact on you, it could be a book that you read a very long time ago or even listened to, or one that you have engaged with recently, but has really left a big mark on you.
• Could you also share with us what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Do you have a quote are saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you tend to revert to this quote, it kind of helps to get you back on track if for any reason you got off track, or you got derailed? Do you have one of those?

Highlights

Gadi’s Journey

Gadi shared that he likes this question because it gives him an opportunity to share with people that a lot of one's journey is luck, and maybe early smart decisions. But some of them in some cases no way to predict how one decision will lead to the next opportunity.

He got into tech as an accident actually, he studied accounting and economics. The tech industry at the time in the 90s was not really evolved actually even studying computer science was one of the easiest degrees to get to. And accounting economics management type degrees were really hard to get to at the time, really reverse from what is today.

And he got into tech because his university was on strike, because their tuition was increased. So, all the students went on an almost a semester long strike. And back in Tel Aviv, and a friend of his said, “Hey, you seem bored. Somebody's looking for a quality assurance person, a tech company.” He said, “I don't know what quality assurance is, don’t know exactly what tech is but let me give it a try.”

And he jumped in, he really liked it and they really liked him and his journey in technology really started because he was bored during a strike in university, he could have been an accountant by now.

And then from there one thing led to the other, joining a tech company was great, it later on split into two. I stayed was one of the two sides is a Co-Founder and build an ERP and accounting software that is still used today. It's called SAP Business One it was acquired by SAP back in 2002. Had a chance because of its acquisition to spend 6 years as senior executive at SAP. And really one thing led to the other in a way that eventually led him to do what he does today. So, some luck, some hard choices, some easy choices, and you can find yourself in a great career.

Organizations Using AI to Enhance Customer Experience

Me: Now you have a lot of experience working with AI. And of course, there's a growing demand for it globally. Can you share with us a little bit about how organizations are using AI to enhance customer experience? And have you seen that change more drastically, especially in the last 2 to 3 years?

Gadi stated that yes, they actually at very beginning of wider adoption of AI in organizations, AI has been here as an option for several years, but we're just seeing it become more mainstream because in any area, any new technology, the first generation tend to not be great.

If you've compared Google Maps to some of the older versions of navigation software, in almost all cases, the first generation paves the way to better products that are using more advanced technology and some of the learnings of the previous generation. So he thinks we're in the first era of wide adoption of AI because it finally works.

And we see AI used across multiple use cases. The first adoption of AI was actually for quality assurance and call analytics. Traditionally in contact centres, calls were this black box and you record them for quality assurance and training purposes but really no one ever listens to them because the time it takes to listen to a phone call, the time the call takes. So it's pretty hard to listen to call especially on mass.

So what we see is more and more companies were adopting call analytics as a way to listen quote unquote, to many calls at the same time and derive insights but also training materials back to the agents. And this is really helpful because it allows us to train agents and help them learn faster. But it actually doesn't solve the fundamental issue we see today in the customer service space, which is lack of agents.

So it's great that we can train agents better but over the last couple of years, we've seen a problem, it used to be pretty bad becoming almost catastrophical. Agent availability was always an issue in the contact centre space and the pandemic made it much worse. We all heard about the great resignation, where more and more people choose not to participate in this type of job, tends to be entry level, mundane and repetitive. So the available pool of agents decreased quite dramatically.

And an added disruption that the pandemic added was childcare, was people becoming sick themselves, people caring for maybe older parents, and agent availability dropped even further.

So if you talk with customers today, the question they’re asking is not how we train agents is how we hire more agents if it's even possible. And then can we train them and onboard them faster, but more importantly, can we start using AI to automate some of the most mundane and repetitive work of those agents, so we can free up these agents to do more meaningful work.

And the reason he’s so excited about this change is that it's a triple win to everyone. If you can take away from the agents the most menial, repetitive tasks, their work is going to be more rewarding, companies are going to be inclined to pay them more, they're more likely to stay longer in their jobs, and customers are less likely to wait hours to speak with an agent. So it's a pretty interesting intersection where AI can really create a relief for the first time in a meaningful way.

Intelligent Voice Automation Helping to Improve Business Outcomes for Companies

Gadi shared that this is the core of what Replicant does. And they have many, many examples of what the impact of that and he’ll give a couple of examples. As he said, they hear constantly from their customers that hiring became their biggest challenge. And they hear quotes like, “I now try hiring 9 people for every five roles because I know that in the first two months, 4 will leave.” So you have to hire more people for the same exact number of openings. People stay for a shorter period of time, it used to be a year to year and a half. Now agents will call it quits after 6, 7 months. So that's an ongoing problem.

And couple of interesting examples. One of them was one of their customers ECSI in a financial service area. So they deal with student loans and other payment products and their hot season is somewhere between January and tax time, which last year was May, this year, hopefully will stay April.

And the first four months of the year, they get the majority of their calls around student loans, tax forms, and so on. So every year the ritual was similar, you have to go and hire extra 20, 25, 30 agents to just help with the seasonal increase and this is a very hard task. Everybody high season agent knows that you have to hire people for a short period of time, they're less committed to the business, they come there to plug a hole, if you train them but then the whole thing goes away at the end of the season and you have to repeat the whole thing every time you have a predicted increase in call volume.

So, for ECSI, this is the first year when they don't have to hire seasonal agents to deal with the tax issues because they're able to automate a majority of their simple calls and repeatable calls around tax and tax forms, “I didn't get the form, please send it again to me.” And so on.

It's created a really interesting experience, for the callers, it used to be or this is the hot season, I have to wait more to speak with an agent just to get the form I probably lost in the mail. Now they get an answer within seconds and the solution was in 2, 3 minutes.

For the company, they don't have to go through the rigmarole of starting somewhere in October to identify, interview agents, hire them in December, train them over the holidays, and make sure they are ready to take calls in January, just to let them go in April.

So, the win here is both on the customer side where the calls don't have to wait on hold anymore. But also on the company side that doesn't have to go through this process which takes a lot of time, effort and energy from management, instead of focusing on continuous improving of customer service. So, that's one example where it's really helpful.

Another one, which he really likes is one of their customers in the roadside assistance space, they are serving large areas of Canada, Canada has a pretty hard winter this year and literally they told them they could not have answered all the emergency roadside service calls they got in some of the coldest days.

Because as you can imagine, a cool day and people try to start that car and they can't and they need roadside assistance and when a day like this happen, all of a sudden, instead of getting X number of calls, 100 calls, you get 300 calls and it's really hard to summon up enough agents in a day like this. Also, because the agent might be stuck at home with a dead battery.

So, the ability to answer any number of calls that came their way and be able to help all their customers in the coldest, hardest days was a big, big change from previous years for them, where some calls had to wait for 20, 30 minutes on hold, sometimes stuck out of the car in 5 degrees weather.

App, Website or Tool that Gadi Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business

When asked about an online resource that he cannot live without in his business, Gadi shared that he thinks for everyone it would be Google. He really forgets how he looks for information and either way, Google became this notepad that allows you to really get quick answers for questions. But then also got kind of deepen your research. This is one that comes to mind first, but he will say that it's so much easier to consume information today that he can't really name one tool, he thinks if he had to, it's Google.

But he learned a lot from Twitter because of the randomness of that. He follows an interesting selection of people that covers a lot of areas of his interest. And it helps you learn from a less structured way, in Google, you go and seek an answer to a question, in Twitter in a way, you stumble upon topics you may have not thought of often and kind of open a new way of thinking for you. So, he likes the randomness of Twitter, but also a huge fan of audiobooks and podcasts.

And he constantly listened to at least one audiobook and maybe a couple of podcasts that he’s excited about and it's interesting. His style of doing that, he likes to walk the dog and listen to a podcast and it helped him think freely about some other areas which may not be directly related to what he does, but can lead to interesting thoughts and solutions at work. So, just a way to provoke thinking much more than maybe learn something new. So if you look at what he's using every day is Twitter, Audible, Google and whatever his favourite podcast platform. Currently, he’s using Spotify, but it changes over time.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Gadi

When asked about books that have had the biggest impact, Gadi shared that he wants to give credit to Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling High-Tech Products to Mainstream Customers by Geoffrey Moore, which was one of the first technology books he’s ever read. And he’s not sure that if the impact of this book, the book is amazing and impactful, he will explain why. But also it was one of the first books that he read so it may have been the transformation he went through was more impactful because it was just one of the first books like the first call you may have had on cell phone in the middle of the desert, it’s always more impactful than the new version of the iPhone that seems a little bit more of the same.

But he read the Crossing the Chasm, he worked on his first ever product that eventually is the one that was acquired by SAP and now turned to BSAP Business One. And they had this classic crossing the chasm problem. They launched this product and the first day they launch it, it literally was on DVDs, this is this was mid 90s and literally, they couldn't print enough DVDs to deal with the demand they had. And 30 days later, everybody returned the product, not everybody but 80% of the customers use the 30 days money back guarantee and return the product. And it became much, much harder to sell to mainstream customers and it took them 3 years to kind of crack the code of what a robust ERP product needed to look like until they're able to get to the mainstream and start getting wide adoption that eventually led to SAP acquiring a company and taking this product globally.

And he thinks the reason the book was so impactful was one, it came at exactly the right time, he was in a chasm was his company unable to move from early adopters to more mainstream buyers. The second is, it provide reusable useful tools that he use actually across his career. There's a concept of nine point checklist of product launch that he’s still using today even as Replicant, one of the first exercise they've done as a leadership team is use the nine point checklist from this book that he read in 1995 to define the target market, the focus customer, the problem they're trying to solve. So having a reusable tool in the book that you can use 25 years after you read it, is just unique. There are so many books that just talk about small specific topic and they're really no more impactful than an article. And he thinks this book having this long lasting impact on him, is very unique. Now, he has read hundreds of books after that, each one of them left a small mark but this is definitely the most impactful book he has ever read in a business sense.

What Gadi is Really Excited About Now!

Gadi shared that it's a really interesting time when it comes to people development; it's something that he cares about greatly. So, as you said at the beginning, people can start calculating his age just by his years of experience and work in different companies. And his perspective, not shifted but evolved to really believe that the most important thing we can do as business leaders is be accountable and responsible to help our own team develop and grow. When you work in technology, especially when you're young, at least his perspective was that was really cared about the product he built and technology he built and he got a lot of traction from building a product that sold a lot of customers, like he still gets a lot of traction from it. But when you look in retrospect, he doesn't miss the products and now own and run by other people, he misses the people he works with and he feels most rewarded by seeing their career.

The intern that worked with him at ASAP and now CEO of a company that is probably going to be lasting for generations. Or the product manager that he hired 20 years ago and now is a Senior VP in a large public company running their entire product line and she's now by the way, a consultant and helping Replicant as kind of part of the give back programme in the Silicon Valley. So, if this is the most rewarding thing for him, he wants to make sure they as a company, continue to help their team launching their careers and make their stay at Replicant maybe 5 years or 10 years or 20 years a meaningful stop in their career.

So a lot of what he’s focused on right now as they kick off 2022 is how do they provide this type of support to their team, being a remote company having people in Canada, in the U.S, some people in Europe. How do they create a platform that allows everybody to launch and improve their career and find Replicant to be a learning and growing experience.

Another area where he’s really excited about is finding ways to support people in a more personal way. Companies traditionally stayed away from anything mental health or too personal especially in the U.S culture, we supposed to kind of keep things separated, you only work here, let's not talk about your emotions. And he thinks now, and maybe the pandemic helped with that, it became more normal to talk about mental health in the workplace and the impact of the pandemic and the impact of isolation and the impact of working remotely. So, he’s excited to kind of tackle this relatively new problem and find ways to define a new SAT score between companies and its employees, about how might they support people also in their mental health journey and in their mental well being, maybe better than mental health, but their mental well being.

Me: All right, sounds good, very good, very forward thinking of an organization because you really have to take care of the person as a whole.

Where Can We Find Gadi Online

Twitter – @gadishamia

LinkedIn – Gadi Shamia

Website – http://www.replicant.ai

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Gadi Uses

When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Gadi shared that he doesn't have a quote, but he has a story. Early on in his life, he served in the military and he was in several situations that were really complicated, it's not necessarily a matter of life and death, as much as they were just complicated, where it looks like everything that could have gone wrong, went wrong, and then another time over and another time over and another time over. And the stress was real, and impactful and physical.

He used to remind myself a story a lot when he was younger, and just the fate memory of the story is very helpful by just remembering being stuck in the mud without being able to move at night far away and having series of issues happening one after the other. And then after a couple of days of intense work being able to get out of this mess. And he just reminds himself that, “Most of the issues he faced today are not at the scale.” And they're not really life and death and they could be resolved in different ways.

So, when he feels like he’s overwhelmed mainly, he remembers the feeling of being overwhelmed when he was 22, much less experienced with much more severe consequences of a mistake. And he just says, you know what, we can just go through it and just having this peace of mind that he will be able to navigate it because it’s not going to be as bad as that helped him a lot, especially early in his career.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling High-Tech Products to Mainstream Customers by Geoffrey Moore

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Stuart is a global thinker in strategy, systems and leadership development. As a founder of Waymaker.io, he has led the creation of Waymaker’s Leadership Curve - a revolutionary way of building clarity, alignment and remarkable results for any organization.

Questions

• Could you take maybe one or two minutes just to kind of share with us a little bit about your journey, even though I did read a very short piece on you, it's good when we ask our guests to express in their own words, how they got to where they are today.
• What are three keys to growth for any organization?
• Now, strategy is very important for business. Why do you think for some businesses strategy tends to be confusing? And how can leaders become more strategic in their decision making?
• Could you share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business?
• Could you share with us maybe one or two books that have had the biggest impact on you? It could be a book that you read or listen to many years ago or even one that you've engaged with recently.
• Could you share with us what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Do you have a quote are saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you will tend to revert to this quote, it kind of helps to get you back on track if for any reason you got derailed or you got off track.

Highlights

Stuart’s Journey

Stuart shared that the journey is much like many other startup founders. He loves business, he loves working with people. He loves serving others in business, that's why we all do what we do. And for a very long time, he worked in corporate life and jumped out of corporate life to get out and do his own thing as you always are inspired to do.

And then for about 10 years he ran a consulting company, working in strategy and brand and sales tech and mar tech. And obviously, customer experience was a huge component of that. And then, along the way, they started seeing and observing problems that their clients would have, that they realized could be best solved with some software, as opposed to just some advisory services.

And so, they ended up pivoting which is always a fun journey, and developing a platform they call Waymaker.io, which at the end of the day is there to help you build a better business, and they help people get unstuck in their business, they help people find breakthrough and they help leaders put the leadership and management operating systems in place so that they can step back from their business and enjoy all the things that their business should provide them in terms of lifestyle and freedom.

So, a very traditional way of doing a startup, the more he listened to other startup founders, everybody comes from another business, you see a problem and you jump in, and you want to get in there and solve it. And that's really his journey.

Three Keys for the Growth of any Organization

When asked what are the three keys to growth to any organization, Stuart shared that number one, you must, must be clear on the problem you're solving and if you're not, then you would have lost focus. So number one, what is the problem we're solving, and that is the ultimate underlying purpose of the organization.

There is no other purpose outside that organization but to solve the problem, you exist to solve for your customer. It's very easy for organizations to get lost when they lose focus on their purpose and their purpose is their problem, we exist to solve X problem for a customer. And that's number one.

Number two, you must build people by building skills. Fundamentally there are two things you must build in every organization. The first is skills and the second is systems.

So number three, the third key to growth is the implementation, development of systems. There's a bit of a myth sometimes out there in business world that he thinks exists and that is that you must systemize everything. And he thinks that's actually a fallacy, you're only telling half the story.

You must build people who can be supported with systems and as we build people through skills and leadership development, and then support them with great systems and process then they can do amazing things.

So three keys to growth, number one, must, must, must be really clear on the problem solving, never navigate away from that. Number two, build people. Number three; build the systems to support those people.

Me: Do you think one is more important than the other, people versus systems?

Stuart shared that he always thinks people are more important than systems when it comes down to an organization and he thinks that's a philosophical answer versus a practical answer.

We should value a system for the return it makes on a business and we should value a human because they're human. And he thinks often we get that bit round the other way and systems become more important than humans. And so, that's when he thinks humans feel like they're cogs in a machine, whether they be a customer or an employee.

And he thinks that's that the underlying secret. He’s a big believer that that skills, which is ultimately building people far more important than the systems. Because the systems won't work if you don't have people with the skills. He always say this, there's no point putting in amazing systems, they're like Ferraris in your organization and sticking learner drivers in them, all they’re going to do is crash on the first corner.

Leaders Becoming More Strategic in Their Decision Making

Me: Now, strategy is very important for a business. Why do you think for some businesses strategy tends to be confusing? And how can leaders become more strategic in their decision making?

Stuart stated that that is such a good question. He actually wants to step back and really challenge this idea of strategy. And he’s a big fan of big thinkers and one of the biggest thinkers in the world in this space is Michael Porter from Harvard, who wrote the book on it.

And he loves his statement that everybody in the world thinks that strategy is a set of actions. In fact, if you Google the word strategy, Google's going to tell you, it's a set of actions. And that's in a business context, that's actually wrong, that's not what strategy is.

And strategy is a position that we hold in the marketplace. And it's psychological first, and practical second, and he thinks that's the big mistake we all get wrong in business.

If we get the strategy right, i.e., the position we hold in the market, this is why the customer aspires to buy from us, and to experience our product. If we get that right, then the practical actions fall into gear.

So, strategy is first and foremost, a psychological moment, it's a position in the mind of the customer, in the mind of the marketplace that we pursue or hold and defend.

And then it's a set of actions to either build it, hold it, defend it, or grow it. And that's what strategy is, strategy isn't an action plan and we've got to get that thinking out of our heads in the business world, and go, our strategy is to be this kind of business, for this kind of customer, for these reasons, that’s strategy.

And when that's really clear in an organization, you can be strategic at every level of the organization; a frontline customer service person can go, yeah, I get it. I know that this is who I'm meant to be, because this is what the customer expects of us, the brand. Boom, great. They're now strategic. Does that make sense?

Me: It does definitely. So there's a book as you were talking about strategic thinkers, because there's a book, it talks about what kind of thinker you are. I'm trying to remember, the book is actually called What kind of thinker Are you? Have you ever heard of that book before?

Stuart stated that he’s going to plead ignorance. He’s not exactly sure but give him some more information.

Me: In the book it talks about like strategic thinkers, bottom line thinkers, possibility thinkers, it's a really, really popular book, but he has a workbook for that book that you would do with leaders to kind of figure out their thinking style. I use it a lot sometimes, especially when I'm training leaders because I find some people think that everybody thinks the same way. And I think in an organization, we all can’t be thinking strategically, right?

Stuart shared that if we put it in that context, of course, yes.

Me: So I just wanted to know what your thoughts were on the different thinking styles. I can't remember the name of the book, it’s going to come to me before I finish this conversation with you but it popped in my head just now when you said it. The book is by John Maxwell How Successful People Think.

Stuart shared that he loves John Maxwell. He has inspired him in so many occasions, wonderful guy. To answer your question, can everybody be a strategic thinker?

Well, it comes down to the context of the roles and responsibilities. But everybody thinks differently and that's a good thing. If we're not thinking well together, then we're not working well together.

And in fact, if he’s remembering rightly, one of the great things that John Maxwell says about thinking is that when we think we connect facts and feelings, and we pursue the truth out of that process. And he actually love that statement coming from John Maxwell. And he thinks if we just dwell on that for a moment, we can't do that as teams, if we don't have a diversity of thinking styles and that's just really obvious, if we're all thinking in the same way, the same thoughts, from the same context, and not critically challenging each other around what is the objective truth in the situation, then, groupthink will set in and groupthink is cancerous to any strategic thinking. And we've got to get that out of our organizations.

And so, he thinks, absolutely, they want that constructive thinking. It reminds him actually of an old CEO he had when he was in corporate life, which he’s talked about on podcasts before.

As a very young guy growing up in business in the corporate world, a big urban renewal, an urban development company and the kind of work they did was very complex, redeveloping town centres or master plan communities and neighborhoods. And so, around the table, you had engineers and planners and finance people and social community development people and marketers and sales people and lots of different types of thinkers. Engineers are very analytical, logical, rational, marketers, crazy, conceptual, off the wall, community people are touchy feely, social kind of minded, there's a catalyst of different types of thinkings in that room, and you've got to come together, and you've got to agree on a plan, what's this neighborhood going to look like? What's the urban design, what's the layout? What’s the look and the feel?

And he remembers he embedded into that organization, this wonderful principle of working together, which he called “Arguing gracefully.” He’s carried it with him for 20 years ever since. And the big idea he was really trying to get into the culture of the business was that when you get into that boardroom and you're a bunch of people sitting around a table, you want to fight for the best outcome, you want to create a place that's worth living in, something that's special.

And to do that, you've really got to let the sparks fly, nothing great happens without a little bit of friction. And you can either walk out of that boardroom hating each other, which is not conducive to great teamwork. Or you could walk out of that boardroom after a really challenging workshop, still friends and colleagues.

And so, he instilled this wonderful principle of culture of arguing gracefully, which meant, go for it, when it comes to the debate, die in a ditch and go for a challenge, bring new ideas to the table, argue your point, debate. But do it with a measure of grace so that you argue the point, not the person, and so that when you walk out of that room, you're still a team, and that team can execute.

And that's always stuck with him. And he thinks that really hits on your point. People with different thinking styles, can they think strategically? Absolutely. Because when we think strategically together, it requires those different thinking styles to come together and argue what matters most, to come up with the best plan, walk out of the room and still be a team and be better for the argument. And he thinks that's a skill lost, not just in business but in society, that's a very precious skill to hold on to in building teams in today's world.

App, Website or Tool that Stuart Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business

When asked about an online resource that he cannot live without in his business, Stuart shared that he would be wrong if I didn't mention Waymaker.io right now. It is a daily tool in their business because it not only helps them think strategically, but execute on a daily basis towards the goals that they're going to hit. But hey, enough of the shameless plug.

The other number one software tool that he can't live without, gosh, man, there's so many. He doesn't know if it's a device. He couldn't live without his iPhone and iPad, that kind of runs his world. But on top of that, he thinks the number one thing he just could not live without, he’s going to be really, really boring now. And he’s going to say Apple Notes because that is where everything goes. And it's the most simple, practical note taking tool you're expecting, that is where everything goes, and everything lives. And it's so practical and helpful.

Me: I use Apple notes a lot too. And it has really come out far away over the years. You can literally dump anything into it and then because the Apple ecosystem is also integrated and connected, it doesn't matter which device you're on, you can pull up the note wherever you are and kind of just continue that conversation.

Stuart shared that he used to be a prolific user of Evernote, and because he didn't think Apple notes was that great when it first came out. And so, for about six or seven years, everything went into Evernote. And it just got bloated; it just got too big and too complex. And he loves the simplicity. So, it's one of those classic things, he and his wife, they run their renovation at their home through it, they captured notes in his work account. With some activities if they go camping, they're going to put up a camping list and organize, they will share stuff with friends and families and colleagues. Beautiful, simple and powerful.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Stuart

When asked about books that have had the biggest impact, Stuart shared he will give two. He was given a book by a really good friend of his when he first went into business by a guy called Guy Kawasaki called The Art of the Start: The Time-Tested, Battle-Hardened Guide for Anyone Starting Anything. And he just loved that book. He loved it because it was at a time in his life when he was starting something and you've got to start it, you got to pitch it, you got to grow it. And so, that book, he thinks was just one of the best books of the last 10 or 15 years for anybody starting something, it's a great inspirational book, gives you some really good practical tools. And Guy Kawasaki is just one of those really simple but very insightful business leaders. Have you have you read that?

Me: I haven't heard of it. But I know Guy Kawasaki. But that's definitely one I’ll be putting on my list to check out.

Stuart stated that it's an oldie but a goodie. More recently, his favourites has been Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win by Jocko Willink, which is the story on how U.S. Navy SEALs work together with discipline and achieve amazing results or whatever the subline is, but Extreme Ownership is the idea of owning your team, owning your outcomes, being accountable and responsible and leading others effectively through this discipline of extreme ownership. He has given that to almost every person in his world, he thinks it's a great book.

What Stuart is Really Excited About Now!

Stuart shared that they're a classic startup, so they're in a startup journey. What's the one thing going on that he’s super excited about first them and their people; it's the foundational steps they’re taking as a business as they put in place the things that he knows are going to be here for years to come.

They spent about 12 to 18 months working on their product and business, doing some testing and pilot work and MVPs. And they really only launched their product six to nine months ago, they're very young. And so now they're securing their first customers around the world and working with them and seeing the company come alive.

And so, the most exciting thing that's happening for them right now is learning how to deliver excellence to their customers. They don't always do it perfectly and when they don't, they want to learn and they want to know we want to get it right. And secondly, how do they develop that employee experience well, and how do they build team well. So those two things are the two really exciting things going on in their world right now, growing customers and growing team members.

Where Can We Find Stuart Online

LinkedIn – Stuart Leo

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Stuart Uses

When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Stuart shared that might give two. One in business is the realization or the saying is that, “The business you start is never the business you run.” And he thinks that's a really healthy thing to remember because businesses grow and mature and adapt and tweak and sometimes we have an idea of the business we're building and we get frustrated sometimes because it's not what we wanted originally. But it's not what we want in a business; it's what our customers need. And so, more often than not, the business we start is never the business we run and that's a really healthy thing to remember if we're feeling frustrated, or have some kind of dissonance or friction going on in the business. And we've always got to come back to:

• What's the problem we're solving?
• Are we solving effectively?
• Are our customers getting value from the way we're solving it?
• What do we have to think about changing in ourselves and in our business to make that more effective?

And that's a really healthy thing to come back to.

The other is one he and his wife always say to each other which is, “Life is an adventure.” And life is an adventure and it's just that recognition that in an adventure, you have a lot of fun, you have a lot of challenges, you get a bit muddy, you get a bit wet, sometimes you fall down the hillside, you get to have great campfires, and look at the starry nights.

And life is an adventure it. It has some surprises around the corner. And when you kind of just step back a little bit, not try and control the world, but kind of fall in line with God's good design and order, you realize that life is a wonderful adventure and it's there to be enjoyed. And we're tatting but life is an adventure and it's a wonderful thing to be a part of.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• The Art of the Start: The Time-Tested, Battle-Hardened Guide for Anyone Starting Anything by Guy Kawasaki
• Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win by Jocko Willink

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Jose Herrera is the CEO and co-founder of a Horatio, a Customer Experience company for today's fast-growing brands. Jose sets the strategic vision of Horatio and leads all growth, sales, and marketing efforts for the company.

Prior to founding Horatio, Jose was the Vice President at Morgan Stanley, overseeing the Latin American Investment Management institutional sales group. Originally hailing from the Dominican Republic, Jose and his two co-founders, Alex Ross, and Jared Karson, were inspired to create a company that provides tech-enabled customer support for North America's biggest brands while also creating opportunities locally on Jose's native island.

In 2021, Jose was named by Forbes Magazine on the Next 1000 list of today's entrepreneurs, redefining the American dream.

Questions

• Can you share with us in your own words, a little bit about your journey and how you got to where you are today. So, could you share that with us?
• Could you share with us a little bit about Horatio? And what Horatio does? What are some of the brands that you support? And is it industry specific? Or do you cut across all different industries?
• What are customers’ expectations now in terms of a company or a brand’s response time?
• What are maybe two or three other key performance indicators that you think are critical for a company to truly attract customers that will remain loyal to them?
• In your opinion, do you think if your satisfaction score is high that that guarantees the customer will remain loyal to you?
• Now, could you share with us Jose, what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without you in your business?
• Could you also share with our listeners maybe one or two books that have had the biggest impact on you? It could be a book that you read recently, or maybe one that you read a very long time ago, but it still has a very big impact on you.
• Could you also share with us maybe one or two emerging trends that you see in customer experience for 2022 and beyond? Anything that you think is coming up that you think brands need to definitely pay attention to?
• Could you also share with us what's one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? It could be something you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you will tend to revert to this quote? It kind of helps to get you back on track or get you back refocused.

Highlights

Jose’s Journey

Jose shared that he grew up in the Dominican Republic, and he pursued his undergraduate career in the United States. And after he graduated from college, he spent almost 10 years in the financial services industry. And he then pursued my MBA at Columbia Business School, which is where he met his co-founders, Alex and Jared. And after they graduated from Columbia Business School, they started Horatio as a way for them to, number one, generate meaningful job opportunities and improve the working conditions of the Dominican Republic, which is where he grew up, and also redefine what it means to provide an amazing customer experience working with some of the fastest growing e-commerce companies in the world.

What is Horatio and the Brands That Horatio Supports?

Jose shared that Horatio mainly provides omnichannel customer support across chat, email, SMS and social platforms. And they integrate the latest technologies to provide that service on behalf of their customers. They provide dedicated teams that are proud to represent your brand values and voice, they don't share resources between brands and clients and their main expertise is working with ecommerce companies across all industries within ecommerce. They also work with financial technology companies and cryptocurrency companies, as well as health tech. So, he would say their main expertise is providing exceptional omnichannel customer support for all these different industries.

Customers’ Expectations in Terms of a Company or a Brand's Response Time

Me: Amazing. Now one of the things that your website says is that you help your customers to improve response time. And one of the statements on your website is “Our average first response time is two hours.” Can you share with us how customers’ expectations have changed I would say over the last maybe two to three years, especially since the pandemic? What are customers’ expectations now in terms of a company or a brand’s response time?

Jose shared that he thinks that the pandemic definitely accelerated customers’ expectations and their needs, primarily through social media and live chat. That is the simplest way to answer customer inquiries and questions. And it's very important for you to understand the value that comes with being able to provide fast responses to your customers, because there's a direct correlation between how quickly you get back to your customers, and your customer satisfaction. And we all know that providing an amazing customer experience generates long term value for the enterprise and for your company at the end of the day.

So, the way that they do this is building out a framework that can allow them to quickly understand what the brand value and their proposition is for their customers. And then dive deeper into how can they seamlessly answer any potential customer inquiry across any platform and the way that they do that is, number one, learn the brand inside out and integrate the latest technology that can make their team more efficient.

So, a lot of people think that artificial intelligence is going to replace humans, in their experience, artificial intelligence actually helps their team be much more efficient and they integrate different tools to automate those easy questions that can be answered by AI and then allow their team to focus on those more complex issues that actually require their expertise and their knowledge to go above and beyond and provide an amazing customer experience.

So, they use a lot of software. Obviously, Gorgias is one of their biggest partners. And they love using that tool to automate a lot of things and to also derive a lot of interesting data and analytics that can make their team even more efficient as time goes by. And then also incorporating some other interesting technological tools that can allow them to overall provide an exceptional experience without compromising those response times that you outlined.

Key Performance Indicators That are Critical for a Company to Attract Customers That Will Remain Loyal

Me: So, response time is critical to the customer's experience. What are maybe two or three other key performance indicators, especially seeing that that's something that your company consistently tries to deliver through on the brands that you represent that you think are critical for a company to truly attract customers that will remain loyal to them?

Jose shared he thinks surprising and delighting your customers throughout the customer experience journey is critical to create loyalty, and to also build referrals.

Nowadays, marketing expenses for, particularly for ecommerce companies is extremely high and he thinks that by delighting and surprising your customers, whether it's sending an additional product for them to try or providing them an extra coupon or discount for their families or relative to also try a product, like those are things that made the customers very happy and loyal to the brand.

And obviously, over communicating goes a long ways. So, he thinks that a lot of customers nowadays, they love when the company provides tracking information and feedback as to where is the order, right, because after a while, if you don't receive your product, you grow frustrated and when you contact the brand, you're already a little bit annoyed with the experience. So, over communicating and being proactive instead of reactive is the way that they like to think about things and ensure that the organization that they work with always have the customer experience journey top of mind, across all the divisions within the company. Because in their experience, customer experience is not only the responsibility of the customer experience department, it’s the responsibility of everyone across the company.

Me: Amazing. So, there are two things you said a while ago that truly resonate with me one was over communicating, because I tend to say quite a bit. I think a lot of brands forget that or they think that customers know exactly what's going to happen. A lot of times we don't know what's happening on the back end in your organization and it's critical for you to not just communicate something one time, but for you to communicate it more than one time so that the repetition is there, at some point we should be able to get the message or the information that you're trying to get across. So, I thought that was brilliant that you said over communicate, because I think it's so important for you to over communicate, well it’s way better than under communicating for sure.

Jose said definitely. And he actually had an example of this, that happened to him yesterday. He purchased a product a couple of weeks ago and they were very good about over communicating, and telling him that the package was on its way, that the package was set to be delivered on a particular day.

But then all of a sudden, the package was not delivered and no one communicated that to him and he was expecting to receive that package.

So, when he got to the mailing room, he saw that the package is not there, he had to go into the system and he noticed that it was incorrectly delivered to someone else and the brand didn't catch that.

And so, his experience already is impacted by this negative situation that he had. And then he reached out to the company and he gets an automated response back from the brown saying, “We have a huge backlog. We're sorry, we'll get back to you within 72 hours.”

So, that already ruined his perception of that brand and he will probably not buy from them again because now he has to wait 72 hours to get a response. So, he thinks it's very important that you have the right data set to make those decisions and to be able to proactively reach out to your customers and understand what's happening and how can things break throughout the entire process of shipping an order right.

So, he thinks a lot of companies haven't put a lot of focus and understanding that data comes from customer experience. He thinks they've placed a lot more emphasis on other areas of the business. But really understanding the data that you can derive from your customer experience team and figuring out how you can continue to make improvements so that you improve that first response time, that you increase that average response time and that your overall satisfaction score continues to increase is critical for the long-term stability and growth of any enterprise or any brand.

Does a High Customer Satisfaction Score Guarantee Loyal Customers?

Me: As it relates to customer satisfaction, there's an author that I follow for many years, his name is Jeffrey Gitomer. And he wrote a book, but one of the things he said in the book was customer satisfaction does not guarantee loyalty. You do a lot of customer satisfaction scores for organizations, and I'm sure there are certain key indicators that will determine whether or not a company has a high CSAT score as you mentioned, communicating, response time, fulfilling promises, and many other I'm sure indicators that will help to give you a really good CSAT score. But in your opinion, do you think if your satisfaction score is high that that guarantees the customer will remain loyal to you?

Jose said yes, in their experience and with the brands that they've worked with, they have noticed that having an increased customer satisfaction score does lead to repeat purchases and overall loyalty and obviously, that also results in client referrals. So, he thinks that it's very important to understand how to actually use the CSAT metric, because obviously depends on the type of customer.

And you have to really understand like when you should actually rely on CSAT and when you should not use it. And so, in their experience, it's very important and it leads to at least a from what they've seen, having an amazing CSAT score does result in at least a 30% increase in in customer loyalty and engagement with the brands that they've worked with and that's what they've seen in terms of like conversion.

So, he thinks it all depends on a lot of different factors. But overall, they've seen that it does lead to an increase in loyalty and additional revenue generating opportunities for the brands. So, it does depend on how you measure it and what industry you're in, of course, if your product is not unique and that's definitely a different metric. But he thinks that if you have an interesting value proposition and your product is unique, and you provide amazing experience, then it should lead to an increasing in customer lifetime value.

App, Website or Tool that Jose Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business

When asked about online resource that he cannot live without in his business, Jose shared that he is a big user of LinkedIn. LinkedIn is one of the biggest tools that he uses to network and stay in touch with his network. That is one tool that he checks and uses every day to communicate with prospects and potential partners. And he also is a part of an organization called Entrepreneurial Organization or EO, which has been an invaluable network for him to bounce off ideas outside of a business setting and that has allowed him to think strategically about things that he normally wouldn't think about when running this business.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Jose

When asked about books that have had the biggest impact, Jose shared that his favorite business book is Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don’t by Jim Collins. He thinks it's very cliche, but he thinks that the overall conclusion of that book is find self-motivating people that can lead on your behalf so that you don't have to micromanage. And he thinks that that is something that they have top of mind at Horatio, is to find people that are really driven to succeed, and they can count on to lead and continue to carry their culture. So, that's typically how they think about when running this business is being surrounded by amazing individuals and letting them grow and lead their teams.

Emerging Customer Experience Trends for 2022 and Beyond That Brands Need to Pay Attention to

Jose shared that he thinks one of the biggest trends that we've noticed over the past couple of months is, there's been a growth in terms of personalization of your support interactions. He thinks that over the past couple of years, we've relied a lot on canned responses and macros. And we've also relied on chatbot automation and a lot of templates and that has cost the brands a lot of money because customers can read through the lines and understand that you're not really taking the time to answer their questions and you're not really personalizing your interaction to accommodate their needs.

So, they've been starting to see a trend where, the majority of their clients wants them to go a little bit deeper when interacting with their consumers and eliminating scripts and using them as a support tool, but overall, trying to be a little bit personable and human when providing communication to their customers. And so, that is one of the trends that they've seen over the past couple of months, that's working a lot. And he thinks that the other trend that they have seen in terms of customer experience, is also understanding how to leverage the latest technological tools that are out there to make your customer experience team more efficient.

So, it's not about replacing the customer experience team, it’s about helping them leverage all these technological tools and platforms to make the right decisions for the business and the right decisions for the customers. So, they've seen a lot of interesting technological integrations happening over the past couple of months that have helped them make the different teams that they manage on behalf of their brands are a little bit more efficient.

Me: So, personalization and an integrational of technological services to enhance better decision making where customer experience is concerned.

What Jose is Really Excited About Now?

When asked about something that he’s excited about, Jose shared that they launched the company in late 2018, early 2019, so they've grown a lot over the past couple of years from a small team of 20 in 2019, to almost 800 in 2022. Something that is really exciting is developing leaders within the company and making sure that they have the right support to grow within the organization. So, they’ve spent a lot of time on making sure that their culture remains intact despite the growth that they've experienced. And so, they've implemented a lot of different interesting initiatives in place at the company to make sure that their leadership team understands how valuable they are to them as an organization and the importance that they have to carry the culture of their team overall within the company.

So, that is something that he’s really excited about is to continue to develop the future leaders of Horatio and ensuring that they're all achieving their goals and their career pathways is moving forward in the right direction as the company continues to grow.

Where Can We Find Jose Online?

Website – https://hirehoratio.com

Twitter - @hire_horatio

Instagram - @hirehoratio

Facebook - @hirehoratio

LinkedIn – Hire Horatio CX

And something that he gets a lot of people ask him like why Horatio and Horatio was Hamlet's only trusted friend in Shakespeare, so they wanted to convey that message of trust and using a partner that you can really trust and rely on as you think about outsourcing your customer experience support.

Me: Ah, I thought of it originally when your portfolio was presented to me to have you as a guest and I said to myself, I wonder why the name Horatio so I'm so happy that you decided to share that with us in the interview.

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Jose Uses

When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Jose shared, “Keep calm and carry on.”

Me: Short and sweet. “Keep calm and carry on.” And could you share with us how that helps you to get back on track.

Jose stated that it just makes sure that he doesn't lose sight of the big picture and stay positive in the midst of adversity and turmoil. It grounds him to understand the position he has at the company, to continue motivating the leaders within the company and keep pushing towards the end goal that they have at Horatio, which is to, number one, provide an amazing employee experience to their team members on the ground, which in turn provides amazing customer experience for their customers and they continue to deliver in that high quality that everyone expects from them.

Me: Awesome. Keep calm and carry on. Well, thank you so much, Jose for taking time out of your very busy schedule for hopping on his podcast today and basically sharing with us emerging trends that are coming up in customer experience, what are some of the key performance indicators for you to ensure that you can retain and sustain a high customer satisfaction score, and even looking at response time, some of the things that are critical to ensure that your customers’ expectations are exceeded and you do consistently deliver on that experience that your customers become loyal and they’ll walk and spread good news about your business. So we really appreciate all the wonderful information that you shared with us today.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don’t by Jim Collins

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Today, I want to spend a little time and talk about a few customer experience trends for 2022. Let's first begin by defining what our customer experience is. The term customer experience describes a customer's overall impression of your business throughout the course of their customer journey. From first discovering your brand to using a purchased product or service.

There are many strategies a business needs to invest in to create fantastic customer experiences. These of course may include offering stellar customer service, driving proactive customer engagement and building positive customer relations, solving your customers problems and issues and communicating with them often. All of these things can potentially be brand differentiators for customers in their own right.

Now, some big ticket item trends that we have seen emerging and developing further in 2022 and beyond include:

• Social Media as a Primary Service Channel - Social media platforms like Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn have become vital elements of the customer journey. A 2019 survey revealed that 85% of contact centre leaders say that social media is a simplest way to support customers. Customers are increasingly discovering brands, browsing products and making buying decisions on social media. As a result, they expect to be able to ask questions and get help on the same channels. However, in 2021, only 14% of consumers strongly agreed that companies are effectively combining newer channels such as social, digital and mobile and traditional ones like email, telephone, paper mail to provide a positive customer experience. Many companies may be struggling to bring the same standard of service to yet another channel. But as I've mentioned before, social media represents one of the most effective channels to provide your customers with timely and easily accessible support. In 2022, it's definitely worth prioritizing your social media as part of your omnichannel service strategy.

• Abundant Self-Service Options for Customers - Many customers do their own research, conduct their own analysis, and many times may even proceed to purchase even without speaking directly with a representative from a company…. you may ask WHY? People enjoy serving themselves, and this allows them to be in control of their experiences and control the pace. A Harvard Business Review found that a whopping 88% of U.S customers expect organizations to offer a self-service support portal. Things like this may include an FAQ page (frequently asked questions), chatbots or even a comprehensive knowledge base. In addition to meeting these customer expectations, providing robust self-service tools reduces the burden on your customer support team. With the right resources, customers are empowered to successfully solve their enquiries, often in less time than a representative can. And of course, this will free up your customer service team to focus on more complex and hands on items or issues with customers.

• Increased Communication - According to Salesforce, 84% of customers say the experience a company provides is as important as its products and services. And two- thirds of customers say they're willing to pay more for a better customer experience. One way to deliver on this expectation is to use customer service automation. Automated customer service tools powered by machine learning and artificial intelligence are excellent for improving the speed and effectiveness of your customer service team. Autoresponder emails, for example, allow you to offer a better first response time to customer queries and assume and assure them you're working on their issue. Chatbots are another example of automation that leverages artificial intelligence to walk your customers through solving common issues without the help of live customer service representative. Chatbots can provide blog links, drop-in prewritten answers to frequently asked questions or even connect your customers with a representative if necessary. In addition to assisting customers in a hands free manner, automated tools can be used to help your customer service team collect and analyze customer data, segment and prioritize tickets based on your criteria, and of course, effortlessly assign representative to tickets. If we do all these things combined, then we're going to be able to increase the frequency and the level of communication that we give to our customers.

• Shorter Response Times and 24/7 Access for Customer Support - Customers are looking for lightning-fast response times now more than ever. Although survey results have varied, they all point to our need to respond quickly and effectively. Here are a few statistics that demonstrate this: 90% of U.S customers rate an immediate customer service response as “important” or “very important.” 60% of people who needed support defined “immediate” as 10 minutes or less. 71% of customers expect companies to communicate with them in real-time. And 31.2% of customers want a response to their email in one hour or less. I continuously tell my clients and even my participants in training sessions that the global standard for email correspondence used to be 24 hours, it has now been reduced to one hour or less. Customer service software has made it possible for more and more companies to offer 24/7 real-time support across a variety of channels. And as these real-time interactions become more common, more customers have developed an expectation for them. Once again, automation can go a long way toward helping your company reduce its response times and provide all our support without the need to hire more customer service representatives. From live chat tools to automated emails to chatbots, there are many tools available today that can help your company meet these rising expectations. In my own personal life, approximately a month ago, an object still unknown to me, fell on my windscreen and cracked it - a very frightening experience for me, however, after calling my insurance company GK Insurance in Jamaica, the agent was extremely responsive, she felt my pain, discomfort and the grave inconvenience this was for me and she was able to issue me an authorization letter within two hours of the incident occurring and I was able to have my windscreen replaced within 24 hours. The only reason the replacement was not completed on the same day was simply because the Windscreen Replacement provider had a cut-off time of 2:30 pm and so on by 8:00 am the following day, my car was there and by midday my windscreen was replaced. What started out to be a horrible experience turned out to be very manageable after dealing with a representative and seeing the level of urgency, and how quickly she was able to turn around an authorization letter. I will forever remember this experience.

We have merely touched on the critical areas that I believe if implemented consistently, will propel your company or brand and set you apart from your competition. Focusing with a clear intention to master Social Media as a Primary Service Channel, Increase Access to Abundance of Self-Service Options, Increase Communication and Reduce Response Times and Create a 24/7 Access for Customer Support are guaranteed to help your business offer a fantastic customer experience and create loyal customers for life.

Disney is absolutely one of the most magical places on planet earth and in his very own words, Walt Disney said, “Do what you do so well that they will want to see it again and bring their friends.”

Follow us on Twitter @navigatingcx or join our private FB group Navigating the Customer Experience Community. Until next time, I’m your host Yanique Grant.

Link -  https://www.toistersolutions.com/blog/how-quickly-should-you-respond-to-email

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Adele Spraggon is an award winning author, a thought leader and an international speaker and trainer. She has been awarded 2020, Woman of Inspiration Award and in 2021, she was recognized as a Top Behavioural Expert of the Year. Her book Shift: 4 Steps to Personal Empowerment has won three awards and is sweeping the globe, transforming how people are setting and achieving their goals. After decades of feeling stuck in patterns of procrastination, avoidance and quitting, all of which had her living her life below her fullest potential.

Adele set out on a journey of discovery and learning.

Her inquiry?

Why the personal and professional methodologies she was following did not work for her. The result is a creation of her proprietary 4 Step Repatterning Technique, which she delivers through a member portal called the Pattern Maker Hub. Today, she supports thousands globally to achieve extraordinary levels of happiness, peace of mind, prosperity, goal-achievement, and life fulfilment.

Questions

• Could you share a little bit about your journey?
• Could you share with us how your brain is making decisions on your behalf and how to change your underlying decision-making patterns so that you can achieve any goal that you set for yourself.
• How do you change your brain to kind of just reallocate how it is that you approach that activity?
• What do you think is the root cause for stress, anxiety and overwhelm? And if you're looking at your situations, and you're looking in the wrong place, could the solution be found in our brain patterns? And how do we tap into that?
• Could you share with us what is the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely cannot live without in your business?
• What are maybe one or two books that you could recommend? It could be a book that you read recently, or even one that you've read a very long time ago, but it's definitely still had a very big impact on you.
• Now, we have a lot of listeners who are business owners and managers who feel they have great products and services, but they lack the constantly motivated human capital. And if the people aren't motivated, of course, you know the quality of service is going to be diminished. If you were sitting across the table from that person, what's the one piece of advice that you would give them to have a successful business?
• Can you also share with us what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you are really excited about, it could be something that you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you will tend to revert to this quote, it kind of helps to maybe get you back on track or get you refocused if for any reason you got derailed.

Highlights

Adele’s Journey

Adele shared that her background is Personal Development. She has been in that field for over 35 years now. But an interesting thing was happening in the first 15 or so years of those. She was a lead coach at one of the leading top personal development industry corporations. And at the same time, she was really, really struggling to achieve her goals, she had a terrible pattern of quitting. So, she would quit things each and every time. And she also had a very high level of anxiety. And despite following all the personal development methodologies that she was teaching and had been taught, she stayed inside myself. So, she really felt like an imposter, which many people feel. And so after she tried a whole bunch of stuff, and she tried everything from meditation to proper goal setting to everything under the sun, she finally woke up and she went, “Wait a minute, is this me? Am I the problem? Or is the problem the methodologies that we’re being taught?”

So she enrolled in university, and she wanted to study how the human brain makes decisions, and how the human equation works in comparison to what we're being taught. And sure enough, she discovered that much of the methodologies she was trying to follow went against how her brain was actually working. And it was causing a real conflict internally. So, she created new operating instructions and that's what she now teaches. She teaches how to change the brains patterning, which is giving rise to our actions, behaviours, beliefs. And the results are tremendous 87% of the people that she works with achieve their goals, and at the same time achieve extraordinary levels of happiness and peace of mind as well. So when we work with the brain, as it's designed, it works beautifully to advance us in the direction we want to go.

Me: Totally agree and peace of mind is so important.

Your Brain Making Decisions on Your Behalf

Adele shared that it's an interesting development in neuroscience in the last 20/30 years, so before that we really lacked the modern brain scanners to peek inside the human brain in a non-invasive way. And so, we didn't know much about our own brain and how it was working and the findings are absolutely extraordinary.

One recent study by John Dolan Haynes that was done in the early 2000s, he discovered that a brain scanner can see the decisions we're about to make a fraction of a second before we consciously know we are going to make that decision. Now that's extraordinary when you think about it, so the subconscious regions of our brain are actually driving our decisions, not our choices in life.

So, she likes to say to people, do you want to know why your hand is in the cookie jar, it's not because you're choosing to take the cookie, it's because your brain has a pattern which is moving you in the direction of that cookie. And when we try and work with willpower and goal achievement and control, it really goes against the way that brain is working.

So, she likes to say, so the train’s left the station, and now you're holding on to that Caboose, trying to pull it back rather than reflecting on what you're doing? And asking yourself, okay, does this work for me? And does it work that my hands in the cookie jar? And if the answer is no, then let's change the pattern, let's change where the decision is originating, instead of fighting ourselves.

Changing Your Brain to Reallocate How You Approach an Activity

Me: Amazing, truly amazing. Now, lots of people procrastinate. So for example, even in school, you'd have an assignment to do and you literally wait until two days, a day before to start the assignment because some people believe they work best under pressure, they push out their best work under pressure. But then, let's say you got this assignment, three, four, six weeks in advance, and instead of kind of just pressuring yourself like that, you could literally pace yourself in terms of the chunks of work that you do towards completing that assignment in a more manageable, structured way rather than pressuring yourself within 24 hours, how do you change your brain to kind of just reallocate how it is that you approach that activity?

Adele shared that she loves this idea of procrastination because the brain doesn't actually procrastinate, it avoids, so there's a big difference.

And what it is avoiding is actually the uncomfortable internal experience that comes about when we think about doing that assignment.

So, let's take that example that you just gave of a student in school, and they're trying to write an essay. If they tune in and look at their own personal experience, they'll see that internally, there is a lot of uncomfortable feelings going on, uncomfortable thoughts going on, such as “I'm not good enough”, or “I don't know what to write”, or “I'm confused” and all of that stuff.

And so, it's that that we actually avoid, and we keep putting it off, putting it off, putting it off, because we don't want to actually experience that.

What we need to know is that, that negative experience is driven by a pattern in our brain. And when we think about it, the human brain isn’t born with patterns, as we enter this world, pretty much a blank slate and we very quickly have to form patterns.

And when we first form a pattern, it works to get us through the situation, but then the brain simply stores it and holds on to it. So, when you were five, six years old, and you first start school, highly likely that you weren't good enough at certain things, right? Highly likely that you did feel uncomfortable when you went to write an essay, you wouldn't be writing one at six. But when you went to write your name on a piece of paper, you'd probably feel a little bit uncomfortable.

And so, it's that that pattern that just keeps presenting itself every time we go through school and that's why we keep avoiding.

So, what we do is we change the pattern, once you change the pattern and upgrade it, then all of that avoidance, that need for avoidance just melts away and you'll actually start to enjoy the process of writing the essay, you start to enjoy the process of learning and studying.

Because every part of the human brain is actually trying to guide you to success, it's just a misunderstanding of how our brain works. So, the only question we need to ask ourselves is when I'm suffering internally, if you know that, that suffering is the result of a pattern that needs upgrading, then all you have to do is change the pattern and boom, you're no longer procrastinating, you no longer suffer, you're just at ease doing what you need to do.

Me: That is so true, so true. And that's kind of where I think most people want to get to at some point, right?

Adele agreed and shared and the brain is designed to do that. The brain has what is called plasticity, it is constantly attempting to rewire itself. It gets trapped in those old patterns, just simply because that action to the brain feels safe.

So, even though it doesn't work for you to be procrastinating, even though it causes suffering, causes misery to be procrastinating, because that was the same action that the brain took yesterday it will continue to rely on it thinking that it is safe because it is the unknown that the brain fears. So, it would rather you suffer than be in the unknown, that's a funny little blip in our brain maybe. But once we change the pattern and create a new known, then the pattern in the brain just readily goes along with that new action.

How the Solution of Stress, Anxiety and Overwhelm can be Found in Our Brain Patterns

Me: Now, of course, our podcast is about navigating the customer experience. And we found over the years, just different persons that we've interviewed at different levels, as well, from my own training sessions that we have. You can't deliver an amazing experience if it is that you are stressed. And I mean, the number one, I believe cause why people have so many chronic illnesses globally is because of stress. Stress leads to hypertension, stress leads to diabetes, stress leads to people getting a stroke, I mean, so many different things that stress can lead to, so what do you think is the root cause for stress, anxiety and overwhelm? And if you're looking at your situations, and you're looking in the wrong place, could the solution be found in our brain patterns? And how do we tap into that?

Adele shared that she would say that the number one cause of stress is this. And when we think about how the brain works, this makes total sense. A long time ago, when the world was more simple than it is today, more predictable than it is today, the patterns that a brain created in its youth. So patterns are created primarily throughout our childhood and adolescence is a massive other stage of pattern creation, and then it slows down into adulthood.

In a world which is predictable and dependable, those patterns created when you're little would continue to work quite effectively, all the way through your adulthood. Today though, the world has sped up, and it's sped up to the point where those patterns created even five years ago, even last year, let's just think about this pandemic.

And patterns that you created before the pandemic no longer navigate you through the pandemic because the situations required by the pandemic are totally, totally different than who you were before.

And so, it's adaptability today that is absolutely essential. But when the brain is locked into those old patterns that it created in its youth, and doesn't know how to change those patterns, like we haven't given it the tools to upgrade those patterns, then, of course, it's going to be stressful, because there's a misalignment between what action your brain is taking and the action that you need to be taking today. Make sense?

It's not that there's anything wrong with you, it's not that you can't function properly, it's not that you yourself is stressed, it's the pattern that is trying to take the action on your behalf is not actually in alignment with the action that needs to be taken and hence the disconnect, and hence conflict.

Me: A whole lot of stuff to really take into consideration as it relates to stress.

App, Website or Tool that Aaron Absolutely Can’t Live Without in Her Business

When asked about an online resource that she cannot live without in her business, Adele shared that today, you'd have to say Zoom. She used to do all live events, that was the only way that she would work. So, kind of do some online content but mostly, she would run full year live events and they would rent rooms and do these big, huge events, she would sell from the stage, she did everything from the stage primarily. And then the pandemic hit, and boom, all of those live events went away overnight, and you talk about need to be adaptable pretty quick, that was like, “Whoa, things are changing now.” So, she had to embrace them. So, that's one of her one must have. The other one is Kajabi. So for her, when she puts all her training onto an online platform, she uses the Kajabi app, which is a training source, she can hold everything in there. So, those are the two that she totally rely on today.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Adele

When asked about books that have a big impact, Adele shared that for her, some of the latest findings in neuroscience are very exciting. So, if people really like to read and they're really interested in how the brain works. Then Iain McGilchrist book, The Master and His Emissary: The Divided Brain and the Making of the Western World is excellent.

It dives into the difference between the brain hemispheres and how the right hemisphere is functioning different from the left hemisphere. For her, that's super exciting.

Another one is Jill Bolte Taylor. She is a neuroscientist who actually had a stroke in her left hemisphere, and came back from that to talk about the difference between the hemispheres and she's got a brand new book out too, think it's called Whole Brain Living: The Anatomy of Choice and the Four Characters That Drive Our Life. So, those two books, she highly recommends if people geek out on the brain like she does.

Another great researcher for brain research is Dr. Andrew Newberg, and he looks at the brain and enlightenment from the perspective of neuroscience. So again, anybody who likes to geek out on that, great author.

What Advice Would You Give a Business Owner or Manager who Lacks the Constantly Motivated Human Capital to have a Successful Business?

Adele shared that that’s a great question. So, motivation, let's just look at these new operating instructions as she was saying at the beginning of this podcast. The old operating instructions with this, set a goal, and then determine the steps that you need to take to get to that goal. And it's all inside of striving, it's all inside of trying to figure out what is right, what you shouldn't do, what is wrong and it creates a lot of stress and a lot of demotivation because internally, it's creating so much conflict. So, here are the new operating instructions, set a goal, instead of determining the steps to get there, ask yourself, “What is preventing me from being there now?”

You will notice as you ask that question, that a whole bunch of actions, behaviours, and beliefs bubble up to your mind. So you might say, “Oh, yeah, I should be picking up the phone and calling clients but I'm not.”

So that's an action you're not taking, you want to write that down. You might notice “Oh, yeah, like, I really feel nervous when I talk to new clients.” Great, write that down. Your belief might be, “Oh, gosh, I'm really bugging people like sales is slimy.” She’s just making all of this up, but write down all of those things that are preventing you from being at that goal today.

Imposter syndrome, that was one of her big ones. She was a big people pleaser, that was a big one for her that was stopping her. So, you'll start to see yourself in a whole different light. Under every single one of those actions, behaviours and beliefs know that there lies a brain pattern, which is giving rise to that action, behaviour, belief.

Your next step is not to try to fix that brain pattern, it is instead to remove it. And, she’d love to gift to all of anybody listening her book, they can get a free copy, all she ask is that they pay for shipping. In that book is the four steps to remove that brain pattern. Once that brain pattern is removed, your brain will do what every brain does, it will create a pattern, it will create a brand new pattern.

And that brand new pattern is going to take you automatically in the direction of that goal. That new banner is going to take the action needed to take why?

Because like she said before, your brain is always striving to always trying to get you into alignment with what is going on in this present moment. And if the success of your business depends on you taking that step, then your brain is going to create the pattern to take that step. You don't have to worry about that. Your job is to remove what doesn't work. She cannot tell you how effective this method is, it truly is something that every person needs to experience for themselves, it is not based inside of knowledge, it's based inside of experience. Once you experience that though, it's like night and day, it's like oh my gosh, bring it on world. I don't care what the problem is. I know I can solve it because you've got a brilliant brain that can solve it on your behalf.

One Thing Going on In Your Life to Develop Yourself or Your People

When asked about something that she is excited about, Adele shared that she just started when the pandemic hit, she moved everything to an online platform, and she started a membership site. And it is very exciting what's happening in that membership site. So there's a lot of activity there and she keeps adding new content. So, that's her primary focus at the moment. She’s building out all the content that she used to teach in live events into an online platform like Kajabi and supporting those members. 

Me: So, you said you started a membership site? 

Adele shared that she’s putting all the content in there. So, there's lots of classes in there which is really exciting all around the brain and different things. So, she has leadership classes in there, relationships.

So people who are in conflict, she’s finding that a lot of people probably because of the pandemic trapped inside of addiction patterns.

So, she’s working with people with addictions now, so there'll be a class on that. Peace of mind and stress, as you were saying before, that's a massive thing.

So all of this content is going in there and people, they're just loving it, like the members in there, they're just really eating it up and really gaining valuable information and valuable tools and resources for today's very complex planet.

Where Can We Find Adele Online

Website – https://www.adelespraggon.com/

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Adele Uses

When asked about a quote or saying that she tends to revert to, Adele shared that she would say her quote is always, “I created that.” And she'll have to explain that one more. So, as she was saying before, patterns are created in our youth then they continue to inform us about the world today. But everything that we see about ourselves and about the world, about the situation is driven by our pattern that was created in our youth. So when she finds myself in a situation that doesn't work for her, she just gently reminds herself of that, “Oh, yeah, that's a pattern. I created that.”

And that just helps her to position it and then she can apply the four step technique that she teaches in her book and remove the pattern.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• Shift: 4 Steps to Personal Empowerment by Adele Spraggon
• The Master and His Emissary: The Divided Brain and the Making of the Western World by Iain McGilchrist
• Whole Brain Living: The Anatomy of Choice and the Four Characters That Drive Our Life by Jill Bolte Taylor

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Aaron Thompson is a Chief Revenue Officer at SuccessCOACHING, the leading provider of Customer Success training and education. He is a connector, educator and public speaker with over 20 years experience helping companies improve retention rates, increase recurring revenue and recoup customer acquisition costs. Aaron enjoys skiing, kayaking and golfing with his family and friends.

Questions

• Could you share with us a little bit about your journey?
• What customer experience is and then what customer outcomes are and maybe give us a practical example of that.
• Could you maybe share with us maybe one or two drivers that you think can help organizations to try and stay ahead of the curve as it relates to anything that may be impacting them as a result of the pandemic?
• Could you share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely cannot live without in your business?
• Could you also share with us maybe one or two books that have had the biggest impact on you? It could be a book that you read a very long time ago, or even one that you've read recently that has impacted you.
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Do you have a quote or saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote; it kind of helps to keep you on track or get you back on track if for any reason you got derailed. Do you have one of those?

Highlights

Aaron’s Journey

Aaron shared that every job he’s had his entire life has been customer facing. The first job he had was working at a health club, helping the members check in as they came in the front door, cleaning the club, etc. And he had a job all the way through high school, all the way through college, all customer facing in different regards, call centers, customer service, little retail here and there. And then about 36 years old, he actually got laid off for the first time in his career. And he had been down a technical track as a software programmer, he had been an implementation consultant, he had been a trainer and instructional designer and most recently was working in customer support at a SaaS company and they laid off about 100 people.

And for the first time he found himself without a job and he didn't know what he would do next. And so, he started looking at other kind of pivots in his career and thought maybe he would go into a sales track, he looked back into kind of the technical side. And long story short, there was this company in Portland, Oregon, where he’s based that was looking for a new Head of Customer Success, that was going to be tasked with fixing the churn problem. See, they had a 40% year over year churn rate. And obviously, that was preventing them from growing. And so, they wanted to bring someone in to fix that hole in the bucket. And with his support background, he was able to get that job. And he tells this story when he does my classes now and his certifications in customer success.

His first day as the Head of Customer Success, he came in and again, he’s tasked with fixing this churn problem. And he thinks he knows what customer success is at this point, it's like support on steroids or kind of account management 2.0.

And he came in on day one as the head of CS and he thinks, “Well, you know, what I've never actually Googled “What is customer success?” And long story short, he finds the industry, the technology players, the books, the authors, Jeanne Bliss and CCO 2.0 is really critical at the beginning of his development, of his strategy. And so, in a 12 month window, he was able to go and create his own customer success strategy, implement that strategy at that company, and take a 40% churn rate down to 8% in 12 months, by really doing some really foundational customer success practices, and starting to really, do quote unquote, customer success, not just customer support.

And so, at that point, he actually exited that company and founded his first company and at 38 years old, he became an entrepreneur for the first time, and not exactly how he would advise his son to do it. A seven year old son at 38 years old, to just kind of take that leap of faith, but alas, that's what he did. And he was an independent consultant, implementing that same strategy at some other SaaS companies. And then he met Todd and Andrew, the co-founders of SuccessCOACHING and they had the beginnings of this certification concept. And they were looking for another partner; he was kind of a lone wolf looking for a pack. And long story short, the three of them now own this business https://successcoaching.co/  and they have 4 levels of fully accredited certification in the discipline of Customer Success.

They work with B2B enterprise companies all around the world through an online learning management system. And then they also deliver live events. As their Chief Revenue Officer, he get to travel around, well, pre COVID, he got to travel around and do a lot of keynotes and meet with people in person. And for the last 18 months or so, he’s been doing the same thing, but virtually, primarily into cameras, and then on the podcast like this.

So, he just loves to talk about customer success, he loves to learn from others and find new ways or better ways sometimes of doing things. And then they baked that into a certification. And then now like he said, they have multiple levels of it live, and they've certified about 7500 people around the world, they have nearly 10,000 on their platform today. And it's just been amazing to see this industry grow exponentially year over year, ever since he found it that first day when he Googled, What is customer success?

What is Customer Experience and What are Customer Outcomes

Me: So, one of your formulas for customer success is customer outcomes plus customer experience. So can we break that down, tell us exactly what customer experience is and then what customer outcomes are and maybe give us a practical example of that.

Aaron shared that he loves that formula. When he found that formula, he thought, okay, he can understand this just as a consumer and as having 20 plus years working with customers, it broke it down into such a simplistic approach he could wrap his head around it.

But, the customer's definition of success and when he says customer, he means human. And he means holistic human who has a personal life and a professional life and if they can impact them on the personal side in a positive way, by way of our professional relationship with them, so save them a little extra time, and they can now get home earlier or get off Zoom earlier, and spend some time with their family will profoundly affect their holistic life in a positive way that transcends their value proposition and B2B relationship, etc.

And so, for these holistic humans, keeping in mind what they want to accomplish, that's the CO (Customer Outcome).

So, CS (Customer Success) = CO (Customer Outcome) + CX (Customer Experience), the customer's definition of success, CS. And again, the human, accounts don't buy things, businesses don't buy things, make decisions, people do.

And typically speaking, we make business decisions based on personal preference. And so, there is a true blending both from the psychology as well as just building relationships and deepening and maintaining those with humans. And so that person's definition of success will always come down to what they want to accomplish, that's the CO (Customer Outcome). So what am I hoping to get whether it's time savings, and he oftentimes say that outcomes, the CO.

And they really come down to two kinds of outcomes, almost every outcome of any customer is either a pain to relieve or a gain to achieve, it's one or the other, I either got a pain point I need someone to solve it, or I'm looking to get bigger, faster, stronger, etc.

And so, when we can deliver what they want in terms of that outcome, and then we can do that how they want it, and that's the CX side.

And so, if we can deliver the same or better outcomes than our competition, and do it by way of the same or better customer experience than our competition, we will have delivered a higher volume of their definition of success.

And so, what that requires of us is to define what that definition looks like for that person, it's going to be different for your executives, stakeholder, then your subject matter expert, then your end user, then your system administrator, all the different roles have different definitions of success, but our job as CSMs is to define what that is for them, deliver on that, and then demonstrate to them that we've done so. That's where business reviews and reporting and benchmark data etc comes out.

 And when we do all three of those, that then leads to renewal and expansion and advocacy from them in this concept of a customer success qualified lead, which is net new business coming into our funnel by way of the customer asset, as opposed to just filling the top of the funnel in sort of typical marketing approaches.

And so, when we do all of this effectively, we can grow our business from the customer asset outwards, we can unlock exponential growth because our acquisition costs go way down and our customer lifetime value goes up, either through renewal expansion, or like he said, advocacy which would be bringing us a net new lead, because we've made their lives so wildly successful. That's kind of the definition.

And that was when he found that, that was a big aha for him, because he thought he can wrap his head around this, he wasn't much of a math major growing up and so, to have a very simplistic CS = CO + CX, it allowed him to wrap his head around it and really start to use that as the North Star. And it's what they teach in their level one certification program as well.

Drivers that Can Help Organizations Stay Ahead of the Curve as it Relates to Anything that May Impact Them as a Result of the Pandemic

Me: So, a lot has been happening globally as it relates to different businesses and different industries and I'm sure it's become even more difficult to achieve customer success because I do believe that COVID has caused the bar to be raised for customer experience, especially for those organizations where there have been delays or I find a lot of companies sometimes are using COVID as an excuse as to why they're not delivering excellent service. So, could you maybe share with us maybe one or two drivers that you think can help organizations to try and stay ahead of the curve as it relates to anything that may be impacting them as a result of the pandemic?

Aaron stated that that's a really good point, actually. And he thinks Yanique is absolutely right when it comes to using COVID and quarantine, and everything that happened in March of 2020, as almost a cop out now. He feels like any company that is still revelling in, “Oh, well, we're still trying to figure out what the future looks like.”

And really kind of harkening to those early days of COVID, he genuinely just thinks it's a cop out at this point. Because we've been in it for pushing two years now and if you can't iterate, adjust, adopt new ways of doing things within two years, that says something about your company well beyond just this particular instance of COVID, and those early days of quarantine.

But the good companies, the agile companies, and he see this all the time. He watches Shark Tank a lot being an entrepreneur, he loves that show. And entrepreneur, after entrepreneur comes onto the carpet and tells their story about brick and mortar, this kind of products, direct to consumer, and then immediately having to shift and do that digital transformation to be completely digital because there was no other way to sell their products. And many of them were able to thrive in that scenario because of their ability to iterate and adopt.

He thinks it's probably trickier, he doesn't know if it's easier or harder for an early stage versus the later stage company, because you have more resources later stage, of course, as well. But he thinks that's the key is really making that digital transformation over to direct to consumer, if that's your business model. And if it's B2B, you still had to make a digital transformation, he’s not going to be flying and taking you to dinner, and doing a business review in a boardroom with you, he’s going to do it on Zoom and becoming adept at that, and really being able to pivot into that.

Like their business, they had the same problem. He was actually in London on March 12, 2020, speaking at a customer conference. It was crazy. And so, he’s flying from Seattle to London and then he’s going to do a keynote in London and a level one certification while he’s there. And then he’s going to hit New York City on his way back for the level one certification and then he’s going to go home to Portland where he lives. And as he’s getting on the plane from Seattle to London, this is March 9th, that's probably more like March 7th of 2020. His contact in New York emails him and says, “I'm sorry, we have to cancel the event because we just can't host people in one place.”

And he thought this is crazy. Like what are you talking about? This is nuts. What do you mean? you can't bring people together like this, it's just insane.

And so, he said, alright and he gets on the plane from Seattle to London now without needing to stop in New York on his way home. So he didn't have a direct flight back yet. And he'll always remember this Instagram post he made that day where it was the weirdest feeling to get on a plane headed out of country during a global pandemic without a return flight figured out yet. It was completely insane.

So he goes and he does the London events and about 25% of the attendees for this customer conference in London, about 25% actually came, 75% of them, their company said you can't go, a lot of the speakers had to pivot to a Zoom delivery, the conference company, Congress Geeks out of Israel did an amazing job of pivoting so that the speakers could do it virtually on Zoom, but he was there anyway. And so, he went ahead and did it.

And on March 13, he flew home and they had on Monday, the following Monday, the 13th was the Friday was when he was supposed to do his New York event and he immediately just pivoted to a virtual delivery. And they sent everybody a Zoom link and said, “All right, well, you're home. Now, I'm home. Let's see how this goes.” And now here we are 18 months later, that's how we will do it forever now.

Because he no longer has to take the time out of office to travel, he no longer has to find people in one given city; he can sell tickets around the world for any given event. They actually get more attendance and have a lower overhead for their business and so their margins went up and it's a delivery mode that they will forever do now, it's not to say he’s not going to pick and choose different places to go in person. But they had to do that on a dime. And luckily, they were uniquely positioned, he thinks, to be able to make that digital transformation, literally overnight. And not every company could do that. But he thinks there's a lot of companies that have just used it as a cop out and haven't adopted this new world and kind of keep waiting for things to quote, go back to normal, as opposed to understanding that this is the new normal, and then using this to actually improve their customer experience and ultimately their customer success.

And just one more point on this, the difference between customer experience and customer success in that formula. Obviously, the CX is part of the CS formula, but how he likes to think of it and he did a keynote actually not very long ago on this. The customer experience is about the journey, it's about everything they do from the top of your funnel in marketing through the sales channels, to everything with on boarding and optimization and renewals, procurement, how easy it is to pay you, etc, etc, etc. All of the things of the journey from soup to nuts, from start to finish, that’s CX it's all about the journey.

Customer Success is about the destination. It's about did we get you what you want, how you want it, and that how you want it is the CX side.

And so, he thinks a lot of companies haven't focused on that journey well enough and said, alright, now that we live in this COVID world, what can we do?

How can we differentiate ourselves from a customer experience perspective?

While still delivering the same or better outcomes than our competition, iterating on the CX side is what ultimately creates the winners coming out of this pandemic.

And then, he doesn't like to say losers, but the not winners coming out of the pandemic. And so, he thinks that's a really good point and a good question. And that's a very long answer but he thinks at this point, if you haven't adopted or you're not in the process of adopting to this new life, this new way the world works, you're not going to succeed maybe how you did before the pandemic, and certainly not as well as the competition if they are able to iterate and adopt this new way of life better.

App, Website or Tool that Aaron Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business

When asked about an online resource that he cannot live without in his business, Aaron stated that that's a good question. So much of their business is online; they have their learning management system and that's obviously where they make revenue is selling access to that for people to become certified. The typical collaboration tools are very critical in their business; they run a pretty lean shop and so, to be able to use something like Slack that is just so widely adopted by this point.

Zoom he thinks would probably be one that he would be chagrined to not include it because he’s on it almost all day long now. There's this new product, actually, that's super fascinating and they're going to be rolling this out as part of their live virtual events. It's called Class and it's built on top of Zoom, but it creates a true classroom experience, but virtually and so there's a ton of functionality in there and they're just getting started, they're looking to roll this out for their business in Q1, probably mid Jan. But that's one that's actually really intriguing.

You talk about a company that's been built in the pandemic, these founders, similar to rocketlane, these founders saw an opportunity, they saw this pandemic as an opportunity not to take advantage of people, but to capitalize on in a positive way.

There are new pain points; there are new outcomes that people are going to have out there. How can we deliver those outcomes in a enjoyable frictionless customer centric experience, and they can start to build and grow and just like rocketlane, go to market, just in the last 18 months, they went from not existing to now they're in the market because of this shift in this digital transformation classes a similar approach.

And it's so super impressive to him as an entrepreneur, when people can see that pain, see that opportunity, that window and just jump at it and then it create something that is as high quality as rocketlane or Class, for example.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Aaron

When asked about books that have had the biggest impact, Aaron shared that Chief Customer Officer 2.0: How to Build Your Customer-Driven Growth Engine by Jeannie Bliss that was kind of his mantra as the first time he was the head of CS. When he did that Googling and he thought he knew what he was talking about and realized he doesn't know what customer success is, he better learn, that was a really critical book to doing that. And it's just so customer centric, the whole concept of earning the right to customer driven growth by making people's lives better, she really touches on that holistic human concept that he started the podcast with. So, that's a big one.

He’s trying to think of another one that he’s read that isn't customer success that has been critical, recently. Over the summer, he was doing the poolside reads, those are always nice. The Technology-as-a-Service Playbook: How to Grow a Profitable Subscription Business from TSIA, it's been out a long time, he got it for free years ago at a conference, they were just handing them out on a table. That was really big for him to understand the subscription economy and the shift in the business economics from the product era when we sold physical products that would then wear out or require the customer to go back into the market.

And now you shift over to selling the use of the product as a service, thus, it never wears out for the customer now because they never own it. And how do we get a little bit of revenue over time, instead of a whole bunch of revenue up front. Technology-as-a-Service Playbook is really critical as well.

And then there's some great customer success books out there, there's also some great leadership books that are out there as well. Another good one that he likes to recommend to people, Red Ocean, Blue Ocean – Blue Ocean Strategy, if you are an entrepreneur or even just have an inkling of an entrepreneurial spirit, that is a really profound book. It's all about when you find yourself in an ultra competitive environment, that's a red bloody ocean and you're really competing on price and kind of having this race to the bottom as they say, how to then innovate, how to pivot, how to adopt a new approach to break out of that and create and find yourself in a blue ocean that is wide open for you to fish within. They use the example of Cirque du Soleil.

And when they found in Cirque du Soleil, they thought why would you ever create a new circus company? That's insane. There are tons of circuses out there, and a lot of them are getting attacked or protested because of the animal rights and there's just so much gray area in there. And why would you ever do this? And so, what they do is they go and they create a circus that doesn't have any animals, it's all people and all of a sudden they find themselves in this blue ocean and they've got Las Vegas and all around the world, they're selling out these tents, like Barnum and Bailey's used to do back in the 70s, and 80s. But they're doing it without any animals; it takes all of the risk away and all they did was just take a very old concept, iterate it, take a new approach to it, and it just exploded worldwide. That's a perfect example of Red Ocean, Blue Ocean. And he thinks it's a good business book for anybody, even if you don't know what you want to do, but you want to be an entrepreneur, it can help you kind of see things in a more innovative way.

Where Can We Find Aaron Online

LinkedIn – Aaron Thompson

Website – https://successcoaching.co/

                https://successhacker.co/

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Aaron Uses

When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Aaron shared that he wished he can show it because it works a little better with visual. So he'll try to talk it through here. But think of whether it's customer sentiment, and you've just brought on a new customer or a personal relationship, or whatever it is, and everything goes as you expected. And you've got a pendulum and whenever they goes as expected, the pendulum kind of swings back and forth, right there in the middle, and everything, is fine, it's not crazy, it is what it is, no surprises, etc.

And on one end of the spectrum, you have good, happy, pleased, satisfied, whatever. On the other end of the spectrum, you have bad, mad, angry, frustrated, confused, whatever, offended maybe, etc.

And we're swinging that pendulum right in the middle. And then something bad happens, whatever it is, and it moves this pendulum all the way out to the bad, mad, angry, frustrated side of things. And we find ourselves in that situation, that time of adversity. And in that moment, it's really easy to ourselves get mad, frustrated, etc, disappointed, etc. And really kind of relish in the moment. And what he tries to do is to remind himself that, “Now I have the opportunity to create enough momentum with that pendulum, that I can move it on to the good, happy, pleased side, to a degree that I never could have had I not found myself on the bad side.”

And so, it's really just a visual of with, “Every challenge presents an opportunity and when we find ourselves in these challenging times, we just want to focus on the opportunity that's presented by it, not the challenge that's presented by it. See these times of adversity as gifts and opportunities to create momentum and swing that pendulum to a place on the good side that it never could have been had you not had to go through that difficult time.” So that's kind of the like he said, it's a little easier if he’s got a visual, he’s a big whiteboard person, a lot of webinars, podcasts are a little tough for him. He talks with my hands a lot; nobody can see him right now. But hopefully they can visualize that a little bit, but it's really just “Every challenge presents an opportunity.”

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• Chief Customer Officer 2.0: How to Build Your Customer-Driven Growth Engine by Jeanne Bliss
• Technology-as-a-Service Playbook: How to Grow a Profitable Subscription Business by Thomas Lah

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

During the Iranian Revolution of 1978, Shaahin's family had to escape to survive and ended up finally migrating to Los Angeles, California. At 15 years old Shaahin left home with nothing but the clothes on his back and created over a BILLION dollars in revenue by inventing the legendary smart drug known as Herbal Ecstacy. These childhood experiences had a major impact on his perspective of freedom, hard work and entrepreneurship. Later Shaahin went on to invent Digital Vaporization (the forerunner to today's vapes) and start a number of successful businesses with a couple of notable failures.

Today, he is the Founder and CEO of Accelerated intelligence Inc, a major Amazon FBA seller with millions in sales, the lead coach at Amazon Mastery where he teaches entrepreneurs how to CRUSH IT! on the Amazon platform and an active YouTube creator.

Shaahin is considered one of the leading global minds on what's next in e-commerce, Amazon and the internet. He is described as the “Willy Wonka of Generation X” by the London Observer and Newsweek and is one of the most forward thinkers in business - with his Amazon Mastery Course he acutely recognizes trends and patterns early on the Amazon platform to help others understand how these shifts impact markets and consumer behaviour.

Questions

• Could you share in your own words, a little bit about your journey and how it is that you got to where you are today?
• Could you share with our listeners for those persons who may be new to this whole Amazon reselling? What are some key things that need to be present for you to be successful in this channel?
• So, tell us a little bit about the book Billion.
• What are some things maybe that you've experienced that has helped to kind of manage the customer experience because that does form parts of the customer journey when their expectation is x, but the actual experience is y, how do you go around that? How do you navigate that to kind of come up with still a very good experience?
• Could you also share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business?
• Could you also share with us what are one or two books that have had the biggest impact on you? It could be a book that you read a very long time ago or even one that you read recently that has left impressionable mark on you.
• Could you share with us what's one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote? It kind of helps to get you back on track or get you refocused if for any reason you got derailed. Do you have one of those?
•  

Highlights

Shaahin’s Journey

Shaahin shared that they moved to the United States as refugees, political refugees in the 1980s. By the time he was 15, he had started his first business, he left home, left family, no friends, basically sleeping in abandoned buildings, abandoned cars, trying to figure out what to do with himself. He got involved in the electronic music scene, he found a mentor and he invented an alternative to a drug that was very popular at that time called Ecstasy. It became a global phenomenon and by the time he was still in his teens with a grade school education, he had 200 employees, and it created over a billion dollars in revenue.

And so, he had 200 employees working for him, he had a lot of customer service people, he knows it's a show about customer service, he knows a lot about that. And from there, he went on to inventing Digital Vaporization technology, all the vapes and eCigs that you see came from technology that he developed and invented and patented. And from there, he went on to master the Amazon landscape. And so, now he teaches people how to create recurring revenue streams by starting Amazon seller accounts, and selling products through the Amazon platform through his Amazon Mastery Course.

Keys that Needs to be Present for You to Be Successful in this Channel – Amazon Reselling

Shaahin shared that interestingly enough, he thinks one of the things that's important when you're selling on the Amazon platform, is that you have to know how to tell the right story. One of the things that they learned from platforms like Amazon, is that the form of marketing as it was known in the past as disruption marketing, changed dramatically. And whereas in the past, marketers were disrupting you to get your attention, Amazon changed that game.

So now, instead of being disruption marketing, we are permission marketing. And not only that, when you sell something on Amazon, when you're a seller, you have to know how to speak the language of conversion for that platform and it's very different.

And so, the work they do is based on the work of a guy named Professor Robert Cialdini, who wrote the book Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion and another book called Persuasion. And what they do is they teach people how to use influence in creating their listing, how to become Decision Architects so that when people arrive at your listing, they're already sold. He likes to say often that the sale is made before the person even lands on your listing. And that's so true. So more true today than ever.

Me: Amazing. I like the phrase or the coin that you just term decision architects. It sounds so eloquent.

About Shaahin’s Book – Billion: How I Became King Of The Thrill Pill Cult

Me: So you have a book out or is it out yet, Billion?

Shaahin shared that the book just dropped called Billion: How I Became King Of The Thrill Cult, it's available on Amazon Kindle, Apple, and you can get the audio book now. The audio book just dropped too. So it's called Billion: How I Became King Of The Thrill Pill Cult, he’s super excited about that, they just got to film deal for that.

And then anybody that's interested, he has an Amazon course where he teaches people how to start Amazon businesses from anywhere in the world. He’s got people in Africa, people in Saudi Arabia, people in the United States, Canada.

And for any of your listeners, if you guys mentioned Yanique, he will give you that program for free. It's a $200 program, it's a one hour course A to Z, how do you get reviews?

How do you do great customer service?

How do you do all those things that go along with finding a product and selling it on the Amazon platform?

How do you start a seller account?

And anybody that wants to can reach out to him, his email is darkzess@gmail.com.

Me: Amazing. So tell us a little bit about the book.

Shaahin shared that the book basically just goes through his journey and his story that he told you now that was basically going from being broke and sleeping where he could lay his head to creating over a billion dollars in revenue. And there were some very exciting times during that period of time, but he was a kid and he didn't know much about business. And all the lessons he learned he kept in a journal and he has those in the book, so it's very interesting. The book is part autobiography and part personal development, where he teaches and coaches people how to become the best versions of themselves, using lessons that were hard fought for him.

Things That Helped to Manage Customer Experience That Forms the Customer Journey with Their Expectation

Me: Now as you mentioned, our show is about navigating the customer experience and I know Amazon is a brilliant platform, really, really great. Of course, I'm sure everybody in the world uses it. But a lot of industries that maybe tapping into the Amazon platform I'm sure are affected by let's say, the shipping and logistics issue that has been impacted by the world globally because of the pandemic. What are some things maybe that you've experienced that has helped to kind of manage the customer experience because that does form parts of the customer journey when their expectation is x, but the actual experience is y, how do you go around that? How do you navigate that to kind of come up with still a very good experience?

Shaahin stated that this is really interesting. And he’s glad Yanique brought that up. So, he'll say this, he thinks there's a couple things that have happened. So Amazon, this company that was started by this little guy, Jeff Bezos, little at the time, now he's huge, disrupted the industry of commerce. And he did this very similar, he (Shaahin) likes to use the example of Piggly Wiggly. Piggly Wiggly was a disrupter.

Why?

Well, back in the turn of the century, if you wanted to buy something in America, you'd go into a store and the man would say, “What do you need today Mr. Jones?” You'd say, “Well, I need some bread. I need some beer. I need some sundries. I need some rubber bands, whatever.” He’d put them in a bag, he tells you how much it was and you would leave, you would have no choice.

So this guy comes around Piggly Wiggly, he goes, we're going to disrupt this entire industry. How are you going to disrupt it?

Well, we're going to build these things. What are these things, they're called aisles. They're going to allow us to have more than one brand, allowing competition in the marketplace.

And we're going to allow customers to come in and pick whatever they want and bring it up to the front and check out. It'll give them an opportunity to see touch and feel the product. Not only that, we're going to have these things called carts where people can go through the aisles, put stuff in carts, and then check them out. It changed commerce forever.

Similarly, Jeff Bezos has done the same thing with his marketplace. Now what's the important thing from a customer service standpoint that he's done is that he's taken the friction out of the sale.

In the old days of the internet, we tend to forget, especially people who are his age, he’s 46 now and he remembers the first days of the internet, younger people might not remember it. You didn't know who to trust, you felt more secure going to a brick and mortar store where you could touch and feel the product and buy it. You didn't know if you bought it on a website, if they would take your credit card number, if you'd never see the product, if you'd see it in three weeks, all those variables have been taken out.

So again, Jeff Bezos is being proactive with his customer service, the best customer service is done before the consumer ever even buys the product. He made sure that the products on the site were of high enough quality, he made sure that there was plenty of selection, and most importantly, the lowest most competitive prices, which he realized was very important, people wanted to save money. Now, from a customer service standpoint, what Jeff Bezos did was he said, “You know what, we're going to let the customer handle their own returns.” Insane, nobody had ever done that before.

He said, “Yeah, we believe that customers can handle most of their issues, and they don't need us. And besides, the cost for us to pay a representative, whatever it is $5, $10 an hour on the end of the other phone to deal with a customer for an hour or two may be more than the cost of the goods.” So what he did is he created easy returns. If you go on to Amazon to this day, you'll see easy returns. If you buy something and you don't like it, you go into the app, or you go into the back end, and you click return, it says what's your reason, you say other, you're good to go, they refunded right back to your card. In many instances, you don't even need to send it back. So it's a form of efficiency.

Now, it's a dual edged sword because it has also created greed within customers. People are needlessly returning things, and people are more expectant now for the silliest reasons. Somebody might order a can of a food product, eat the food product, and then return the tin because it has a dent in it, half empty and this is much more commonplace.

Now Amazon, interestingly enough, doesn't care, unless it's their own product and even then they don't care because they've got such higher margins. But if it's a third party product, Amazon just builds the third party company, it becomes the sellers issue that their product was returned and they handled the customer service from that end.

And nowadays, when they do customer service, he has a policy where they just refund people's money. But every once in a while, every occasion, when they get a ridiculous customer, somebody who is absolutely ridiculous, he will personally call them up himself and they're always shocked that the President of the company is on the phone. And not only will he get them on the phone himself, he will let them know how silly they are being, in a very polite way and this goes against everything in customer service. And then he will sell them something else, he will make it a point not to leave the phone call without having sold them something.

And it always leaves a great experience, a great story that they're going to tell people. And, he doesn't do this with reasonable customers. So if you get a product that's bad, or you have a bad service experience, or there's an employee that maybe treated you unfairly, then of course, they just refund your money and they take care of you the best that they can, always.

But occasionally, you will get somebody who's being unreasonable and the best way to approach somebody who's being unreasonable is to confront them with their unreasonableness and to just call them up and have a real adult conversation. And more and more he’s finding that that's a very effective tool because people who are trying to cheat the system, people who are trying to take advantage are generally cowards.

So when confronted, you can come across that. Another issue that they have is reviews. So this is one of the big things, Amazon has one of the largest blog networks in the universe. Why? Because they've got you and me buying things on there and writing content for them in the form of reviews, making videos in the form of reviews. That's all searchable content, though you're producing for free and giving to Amazon as their property. They own that work that you just created and put on their site and for it, they give you back nothing.

Now, reviews are a dual edged sword. So, you get some people leaving honest reviews, and you get some people leaving fake reviews, some competitors may leave reviews for your product because they don't like you and they want people to think that your product is bad. They've had competitors leave reviews saying, “Hey, there's a fly in the product. Literally, there's a fly in the product, there's a this or that.” They had one guy putting magnets inside some tea and being like, hey, look, it sticks. We're like, static electricity, it's a thing. So, there's a lot of that going on. But at the same time, consumers are now learning that they can use their reviews, their social proof against the companies as a tool for them to get free things.

So what they will do is they will leave a bad review, and then sit back and wait. People do this on Twitter, they do it on Facebook, that's why they take to social media. And they'll just sit back, maybe they'll do something weird. He heard of a guy who tore his shoe laces or tore the soles off his Nikes and posted it on social media and was waited for Nike to call him back and give him a new pair. But it's this ecommerce 3.0 that has spoiled the consumer at the end of the day. And it's for those ridiculous types of things where he feels compelled to call those people back. Now, he doesn't encourage anybody to do that because you'll never get what you want if you're trying to cheat them. And it's unfair to other people that have legitimate grievances. But there's a whole faction of people that leave negative reviews for other people just so they can engage them, and then get a free thing or get a refund or not have to pay for their product.

And as any business, especially a small business, you have to have a way to address that in your business. And his way is just have the CEO call them, you won't get very much of those kinds of calls, but you got to call them. And sometimes you just have to reason with people because people are unreasonable in general with their expectations.

So, they have another brand of glasses that they make of sunglasses, and it's a special type of lens that you wear at night, and it blocks the blue lights, and it's one of the best in the marketplace. And with that product, they offer an unlimited money back guarantee, they're called Sleep Doctor Glasses. And the website is sleepdoctorglasses.com and they offer an unlimited warranty. And the reason why they did this, and it's not just a defect warranty, it's a run your car over warranty, it's a grab a hammer and drill holes through it warranty, whatever you do, run over it with your truck warranty.

And the reason they do this is that most people don't want to damage their personal property, most people love the product so much that they don't want to damage it. But if you're one of those people who does, they're going to use that as a story and they're going to tell that story. And not only are they going to tell that story, you're going to tell that story to everybody that you know, you're going to go, “Man, I bought these glasses for $40 bucks, $50 bucks, from sleep doctor glasses, and my 400 pound gorilla that I keep as a pet sat on them and smashed them. And they just sent me a new pair. And they said as many times as he sits on them, I'm going to get new pairs.” And that creates more marketing, more promotion, more social proof than any marketing that they could do.

So you can't do that for every product, especially if you have a product that's not as high quality, but it's a great hack to offer that to them. When he was in the vaporizer business, they offered extended warranties, electronics, a lot of companies make a lot of money on the extended warranties, and they actually made more money on the extended warranties than we did selling the product because what's your cost on an extended warranty zero, and you get $100, $125 bucks on a $400 product is 25% pure profit that you're making with the product.

Yeah, you're selling it for $400 but you got parts, you got to manufacture. So warranties are beautiful, and rarely, by the way for you guys who are watching this work in the favor of consumers. So if you just always say no to any extended warranty, and at the end of the day, you use that money to fix the thing that breaks, once you'll be in a better place. So the rule of thumb is do not buy the extended warranties, they don't work in the favour of the consumers.

But they had these vaporizers and they had this guy who and remember these are the first vaporizers, they were huge, they were not the eCigs that we see today, this was the original stone age vaporizers.

And they had this guy who bought the extended warranty and then he bought the additional, he wants to say slip and fall, he bought the original water damage, they had different levels of the warranty. So one level was just protects you against defects and other one was drop it in the pool and they cover it. And he bought the extended warranty and he would do crazy things, he would drag it behind a car, he would light like all kinds of objects inside of it, and make them explode. And he would call without fail every month and be like, “Hey, I broke my device, time to send me the new one.”

And finally, he called him personally, he was shocked, again that the CEO was calling him, he said, “I love this. Thank you for making these videos, people love them on our website, here's what I'm going to do for you. Anytime you want a new device, just call me. I've refunded your money, I've refunded you for the extended warranty, you no longer have an extended warranty but here's what you have. Call me anytime, here's my cell phone and anytime you break your device, for whatever reason, I'll just send you a new one. You don't even have to send it back.”

And he was so pleased, he did it maybe three more times after that. They never heard from him again but he continued to make videos about how great their device was.

And so, it's another great practice he thinks that people don't do specially CEOs of companies or people that are running companies, even if you're a mom and pop is that we lose touch with our customers, we lose touch with the people that are paying our salaries, people that are paying for our livelihoods.

And he thinks it's great to reach out and get to know them. He knows it's taboo and if you're a hothead, you probably shouldn't be the one doing that, somebody else on your team should be doing that. But if you're cool and you like people, you like humans, what a great thing to do, not everybody likes humans, depends on the day he’s talking to people, his patience runs thin.

App, Website or Tool that Shaahin Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business

Shaahin shared that he uses lots of great tools. So, he loves Evernote, which he thinks is fantastic, he uses Evernote. He loves 1Password, they use that company wide to maintain passwords, which he thinks is really useful. They're big fans of Asana as far as task management for his managers that he does. He loves the website Upwork and Fiverr, they're big fans of that, and they use that in their FBA seller course. So if you guys go to www.fbasellercourse.com or if you email him, darkzess@gmail.com, he'll give you the Amazon Mastery Course for free the one hour crash course.

So, those would be probably his top tools as far as like personal productivity. He loves a VR app called Tripp, it's awesome. It works on the Oculus ecosphere. So if you use the Oculus VR headset, it's a fantastic app that gets you in a flow state in under 10 minutes. And it's one of the most beautiful meditative apps; he thinks out there, it's really a game changer. So, he really recommends the Tripp app, he thinks it's really fantastic. And he also loves the Muse Headband for meditation as well; those two things are really great.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Shaahin

When asked about books that have had the biggest impact, Shaahin shared that he’s going to say his own book Billion: How I Became King Of The Thrill Pill Cult. Again, available on Amazon and audible check it out if you guys liked his story, if anything he said here inspired you or rang true with you, check out his book and leave him a review. But he’s a big fan of David Allen Getting Things Done: The Art of Stress-Free Productivity, he thinks he's an amazing, probably the best person in personal productivity if you're in customer service, that'll be a great book. I like Richard Koch, The 80/20 Manager: The Secret to Working Less and Achieving More, which would be great for anybody who's managing customer service people or managing any people of any kind. Unreasonable Success and How to Achieve It: Unlocking the Nine Secrets of People Who Changed the World by Richard Koch as well. And always the books by Robert Cialdini Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion.

What Jeff is Really Excited About Now!

Shaahin shared that he wants to come to Jamaica. He has been many times. He’s been to Negril, he’s been to Montego Bay, he’s been all over Jamaica, actually. He loves the island, loves the people, and loves the culture. Such an amazing place, he’s been to Kingston, he’s been up in Strawberry Hill.

Me: You are a Jamaican veteran. Well, the next time you come to Jamaica, make sure you hit me up. I am in Kingston.

Shaahin stated that he loves that, they can drive up to Blue Mountains, get some of that coffee. It's such an amazing place right now.

Right now he’s busy teaching people, inspiring people how to get out of the grind. The greatest crime that has been done to the average person in the last 100 years is this concept that you have to sell your hours for money. And they're changing that now, they're changing that paradigm with the work that they're doing on Amazon, anybody can start an Amazon business for little or low cash, very little money, and to grow that business to a seven figure business in a couple of years by following some very simple paint by number recipes that they teach you. So, his goal for the next year is to inspire 1000 people to start 1000 Amazon companies, becoming a seller on the platform, creating great products and selling them and then creating amazing companies in the next two years and selling those to create recurring revenue.

Where Can We Find Shaahin Online

Shaahin shared that if you guys are interested in this content, and by the way, they’ll rebroadcast this on their channel, they're up to about 67,000 subscribers now. So they'll share this and they'll try to send some subscribers to Yanique’s show. He knows they have a lot of customer service people who watch their show, who would be very interested in the content Yanique is putting out. So with your permission, they'll do that as well.

So they have a show called Hack and Grow Rich, it's available on Stitcher, Spotify, Apple podcasts, wherever podcasts are found, and also on YouTube if you prefer video content. So make sure to check them out on those channels like subscribe, dislike, put rude comments in the comment section whatever you want to do.

Also, his book once again Billion: How I Became King Of The Thrill Pill Cult is available wherever books are found and on Audible. And additionally, if you're interested in that course, reach out to him by email, that email is going to be darkzess@gmail.com and to learn more about his course, you can go to www.fbasellercourse.com FBA of course standing for Fulfillment by Amazon.

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Shaahin Uses

When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Shaahin shared that he’s got two going through his head. His intuition tells me go this one.

Why do angels fly? Because they take themselves lightly. “Seriousness is a disease.” And he’s noticed Yanique laughed a lot during this show and you laugh and you smile, and that's great.

Well, we all have to remember, this is not serious and business is not serious. Customer service is not serious, none of this is serious. Seriousness is a disease of the ego, so when you get that angry customer on the other end of the phone, when you get that disgruntled employee, when you get that person who you have to deal with, remember to smile. And remember why angels fly.

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• Billion: How I Became King Of The Thrill Pill Cult by Shaahin Cheyene
• Getting Things Done: The Art of Stress-Free Productivity by David Allen
• The 80/20 Manager: The Secret to Working Less and Achieving More by Richard Koch
• Unreasonable Success and How to Achieve It: Unlocking the Nine Secrets of People Who Changed the World by Richard Koch
• Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert Cialdini

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Jeff Rosenblum is a co founder of Questus, a digital advertising agency that has worked with many of the world's most influential brands, including American Express, Apple, Capital One, Disney, The NFL, Samsung, Starbucks, Universal, Wyndham and Verizon. Jeff created a groundbreaking documentary about the advertising revolution called The Naked Brand and the book Friction which explained how passion brands are built.

Jeff has lectured at some of the top universities in the world, including Yale, Cornell, Columbia, and the London Business School. He has won some of advertising’s most prestigious awards, and presented at many of the industry's largest conferences.

Questions

• Could you share with us a little bit about your journey?
• Your Book Exponential, could you tell us a little bit about what the book is about? Who is the book geared towards helping and what do you mean by empowering? And what do you mean by interrupting?
• What does empowerment really mean in practical steps or practical implementation? When you say you employ your team members, what does that look like? Could you give us maybe one or two examples?
• How do factors like culture and transparency help companies to build exponential growth?
• You mentioned that there are multiple channels that exist nowadays. Let's say a brand is looking to be present on all channels, but they just don't have the resources to be active on all channels. What would your recommendation be to them?
• Could you share with our listeners what is the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely cannot live without in your business?
• Could you also share with our listeners maybe one or two books that have had the biggest impact on you? It could be a book that you read a very long time ago, or even one that you read recently. But it definitely has left an impressionable mark on you.
• What's one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Where can listeners find you online if they wanted to follow your journey or even to get in contact with you?
• Do you have a quote or saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote; it kind of helps to get you refocused or get you back on track if for any reason you get derailed.

Highlights

Jeff’s Journey

Jeff shared that he took a pretty unique path to where he’s at, he didn't necessarily go to some of the finest educational institutions in the world, he was a pretty crappy college student, to be honest with you. And when he graduated school, he had to beg his way into an internship at a research company and they gave him a three month shot and he applied a philosophy that he continued to apply every single day now three decades later, which is “First one in, last one out, every day.” First one in, last one out.

So eventually, that internship turned into a full time job and this was around the birth of the internet. And as a researcher, his job was to collect data and they had very traditional ways of collecting that data, it was through the mail and through the mall surveys and phone surveys, in focus groups. And his job was to figure out how he can collect the highest quality data possible at the lowest price. And then when the internet came along, he had this crazy idea, which was why can't we start collecting all of that data through the internet, which seems grossly obvious now. But really, nobody was doing it at that time, or very few people were doing it at that time.

So, he was lucky enough to be one of the few people pioneering the field of internet research. So, he’s still like a 25 year old zit faced kid, and next thing you know, he’s got Microsoft, Netscape, Sun Microsystems, Walt Disney, Levi Strauss, all as his clients, because he was one of the very few people who knew how to collect data via the internet. But what was interesting is they didn't just want data, what they wanted was to understand the implications of the internet for their business. And what he quickly realized is that everything about business strategy was about to be revolutionized. And perhaps even more importantly, from his point of view, everything about advertising was about was about to go through a complete and total revolution.

So at that point, he realized he no longer wanted to simply collect the data and tell brands what to do with the Internet, what he wanted to do is actually do something about it, he wanted to blend the world of data and creativity under one roof and create the next generation of advertising agency. So, his college roommate was a world class artist, he had art gallery openings, celebrities, like Johnny Depp were buying his paintings and he had shifted a lot of his focus into the world of digital design. So the whole idea was to take a team of outsiders, him (Jeff) from the data and analytics background, ‘he’ from the creative background, and start an agency that's focused less on interrupting people through traditional media and more about empowering people through digital media.

Jeff’s Book Exponential: Transform Your Brand by Empowering Instead of Interrupting – What the Book is About – Who is the Book Geared Towards Helping

Me: Amazing. So, you really got into it. And you've been in it even before a lot of the organizations that are currently trying to tap into that feature, have been into it. Now you have a new book, Jeff. That's the things that really, really sparked my interest, your book and it is entitled, Exponential. I love the name. So, could you tell us a little bit about that book? I know subtitle for the book is Transform Your Brand by Empowering Instead of Interrupting. Could you tell us a little bit about what the book is about? Who is the book geared towards helping and what do you mean by empowering? And what do you mean by interrupting?

Jeff shared that he’s always been fascinated by brands that absolutely dominate the competition, brands that grow exponentially in size, in influence, in financial performance. Brands like Warby Parker and Sweetgreen, and Apple, and Google, and Amazon. So, really what he’s done is focused in on how advertising has gone through a revolution and we can no longer rely upon interruptions, meaning buying 30 seconds spots on TV ads, buying full page print ads in magazines, buying pop up ads, and banner ads, in pre rolls.

All of those tools are fine, there's nothing wrong with them, the data and the mathematic show that they work. And as an agency, they leverage the hell out of those techniques, those are very powerful techniques.

But what they drive are good results, they don't drive exponential results and what they realized is brands that move beyond just interrupting and expand into empowering people, improving their lives one small step at a time, giving them the content and the tools to move their lives forward, those are the brands that drive the exponential results. So, that's what the book is about is how data and creativity, how content and technology can be used to empower an audience and dominate the competition.

What Does Empowerment Mean in Practical Steps or Practical Implementation

Me: Now, you also have in the book that empowerment drives exponential bottom line results. For a business, empowerment, it embodies a lot of different things and I would just like for you to break down to our listeners, what does empowerment really mean in practical steps or practical implementation? When you say you empower your team members, what does that look like? Could you give us maybe one or two examples?

Jeff stated that that's a great question. Because empowerment really comes in two sides of the equation, how do you empower your customers in your target audience? How do you give them the content and the tools to make sure that they're getting more out of the products and the services that you create?

But also to the question, empowerment comes in the form of culture, how do we help people on our teams do the best work possible? And he thinks a lot of people have confused culture to mean fun. In Silicon Valley, where their headquarters are out in San Francisco, there was the trend of foosball tables and ping pong tables and bars and right in the office and there's nothing wrong with those ideas. Having music and some beers and some games is certainly fun. But that's not culture. And that's not empowerment.

And what they've realized is great culture is really just about putting people in position to do their best work, that's what people want. If you hire the right people on your team, what they really care about is how can they advance their career as effectively as possible? How can they advance their entire team as effectively as possible? So, great culture is really about giving people those tools, giving people the tools to do their best work.

Me: Amazing. So, we're giving our employees the tools to ensure that they're doing their best to work.

How Factors Like Culture and Transparency Help Companies Build Exponential Growth

Me: Now, you spoke a little bit about culture, and you made reference to the fact that a lot of organizations mistake the whole process of culture as being fun and as you said, pool tables and lots of other things that they may attach to the whole vibe of culture. How do factors like culture and transparency help companies to build exponential growth?

Jeff shared that the world is just much more complicated than it's ever been before, at one point you could get by by having some really good TV ads to drive awareness and interest and then you can have a good retail store with some good retail staff members to turn those people who are interested into customers. But the world just really exploded. Now, you don't have just those two critical channels and maybe a couple other channels, the world has literally dozens and dozens of channels where you need to not only communicate with your audience, but actually transact with your audience.

So think about Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, TikTok, your desktop website, your mobile website, your mobile apps, your retail stores, which should be connected to all those digital touch points, as well as all those traditional tools like TV, radio and print, and that's just a few. By the time we're done with this podcast, there's going to be three or four emerging new, great tools and channels.

So, for brands to really succeed, they need to be able to break down the silos that exist internally. You can't just have great creativity sitting in one silo to create a great 30 second spot. And then great salespeople in another silo who are converting folks.

You need technology and creativity and data and analytics, and project management and finance, all to work together seamlessly. And the only way to do that is build great culture, which is based upon safety of communication, which is built upon process with communication, which is built upon tools for communication, ultimately, breaking down those silos that exist, recognizing that the world is just so much more complex than it's ever been before.

And the target audience is more demanding than it's ever been before because although things get really complex in the way that we want to tell our brand story, in the ways that we can tell our brand story, the target audience ultimately, really wants simplicity, they will not stand for any friction in that purchase journey.

Recommendations for a Brand to be Active on Multiple Channels

Me: Now, you mentioned that there are multiple channels that exist nowadays. Let's say a brand is looking to be present on all channels, but they just don't have the resources to be active on all channels. What would your recommendation be to them? Because I find that a lot of brands are everywhere, but they're not responsive everywhere and of course, that will impact the whole journey if it is I'm trying to get in touch with you and it's just a dead end.

Jeff shared that that is a really great question. And that is the question that all marketers are going to be faced with in perpetuity. And it's why we also see this addiction to TV in other traditional forms of advertising, because it's just so much easier to say, “Look, all we need to do is be great at TV, and then maybe great at retail, and we're done.” But that's not consistent with the way that people shop nowadays, the way people conduct research, the way they interact with brands and obviously, much more so with a younger audience.

So to answer your question, it really does come back to that culture question, which is, are you breaking down silos so that you can communicate internally, share the data that you have internally, and ultimately, leverage the channels that are most effective for you.

So, the beautiful part of everything that we're doing right now is we've got more data than ever before, unprecedented and unparalleled levels of data.

The problem with data is you can really have information overload, you can really have paralysis by analysis.

So the key is to really streamline your data down to the key performance indicators, there's probably only one, two or three really critical KPIs that you need to track and through that have honest conversations about where you want to be and what's most important for your brand and your target audience.

There's really no reason to be mediocre at Facebook, mediocre at Instagram, mediocre at Twitter, mediocre at LinkedIn, when you can be really great at one or two of those channels.

So data is going to be the answer and understanding that target audience from not just a data standpoint, but also a qualitative standpoint so you understand what is your target audience really value and then couple that with the data to show what's driving your business results.

App, Website or Tool that Jeff Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business

When asked about an online resource that he cannot live without, Jeff shared that he doesn't know if he has one. But he'll tell you he thinks the key to their success is based upon a few things and one of them is education, they really preach collaboration, celebration in education.

So, he thinks the apps that enable them to get educated are probably the most important. And there are just a few content sources that he thinks are really powerful. He’s just a huge believer in reading the Wall Street Journal from cover to cover every single day, particularly in the world of advertising, where it's too easy for us to get caught up in Ad age, in Ad week and other stuff that really just talks about their own industry.

But he thinks as advertisers and marketers for them to be most effective, they need to step back and look at the overall business experience and the overall business strategy because that's what marketing really is. So, he thinks reading the Wall Street Journal cover to cover is one of the most important things that anybody can do. But there's also some great newsletters out there, he’s a huge believer in Allen Murray, from Time Inc., from Fortune, he has a world class, daily newsletter. But he thinks for anyone who's listening, you got to find two or three resources that you can go to, not occasionally, but virtually every single day so you can watch how these stories unfold and how these trends and metrics unfold. But you can never be too educated in a world that's as dynamic as it is today.

Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Jeff

When asked about books that have had an impact, Jeff shared that that's also a great question. He’s a pretty voracious reader, if he’s honest with business books, he very often will just hammer the first three chapters and find that books often get redundant so he doesn't make it all the way through. And that's one of the things they tried to do with Exponential, is treat it like the layers of an onion and make a key point, but have every chapter deal with a new topic as it relates to leveraging the consumer journey or leveraging culture so that the book continues to unfold.

And he thinks a couple of books that have been really influential for him is one of them, which was written by Bill Walsh, posthumously, meaning after he passed away, his family took his notes and the name of the book is, The Score Takes Care of Itself: My Philosophy of Leadership. And he's one of the greatest football coaches ever; he was the single greatest coach ever until Bill Belichick came along. And his idea was really based upon the concept of putting the ball where the other team isn't, which really is a great business strategy, meaning don't follow what everybody else is doing, find that whitespace and let that dictate where your business strategy goes.

But the bigger thing about The Score Takes Care of Itself that you can get from the title is, he really focused in on culture and when he first took over the 40 Niners, before he won a bunch of Super Bowls, he was focused on all these little things like how do secretaries answer the phone? And everyone was like, “What are you doing your football coach? And why are you worried about how people answer the phone, that has nothing to do with what we're trying to accomplish here.” And he almost didn't make it, they almost fired him. But his point was like, “We're going to take care of all the little things, we're going to take care of the culture. And when we do that, per the title, the score will take care of itself.” And that's just an absolutely amazing book.

Another great book is a Who: The A Method for Hiring by Geoff Smart, which has been really influential for him. And really what he gets down to is this point about culture. But culture really starts with one thing, which is hiring the absolute best human beings possible.

You can't really build culture, unless you first build a team of A+ players. And the point of the book is, if you want to get A+ players, there's a process that you can follow, it's not just a goal, it's not just a philosophy, there's a methodical process that can be used to find those A+ players. And to be honest with you, they don't always nail the process and you can never be too process oriented for things like that. But it was a real game changer for them in regard to how they approach recruiting and bringing on world class talent.

What Jeff is Really Excited About Now!

When asked what is one thing that he’s really excited about, Jeff stated that that's a great question. There's probably two things, the obvious and maybe the less obvious, but much more important, which is, from a business standpoint, this idea of marrying together data and creativity, this idea of building brands through empowerment, instead of interruptions, they started their agency 23 years ago based upon this principle, and now the whole world, the whole business world is really waking up to this is it, this is the model, this is how great brands are going to be built now and in perpetuity. In a lot of ways COVID didn't change business, he thinks in a lot of ways COVID expedited business and advanced it about seven years forward.

So one of the really exciting things for them is that tons of amazing brands are reaching out to them and they're in conversations with some of the biggest and the best brands in the world who are really excited about this concept of looking at the entire consumer journey, creating content and tools and empower people rather than just building brands through interruptions. But really, the less obvious, and perhaps even more exciting thing is, as their business grows and they take advantage of these opportunities, the exposure on getting to world class team members and the opportunities they're creating for their team members is probably the most rewarding and exciting experience he’s ever had in business, just watching young folks on their team take on bigger challenges, get promotions, do some of the best work he’s ever seen in his career, fundamentally and completely outperform him in every way, shape, or form, and then recruiting in new incredible team members who are starting that journey also, that to him is so incredibly rewarding, fulfilling and exciting.

Where Can We Find Jeff Online

Website – https://www.questus.com

Instagram - @thejeffrosenblum

Twitter - @JRQuestus

Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Jeff Uses

When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Jeff shared that that's a great question. But no, not really, he doesn’t think there's any quote that he rely upon that becomes a mantra for life in general. It's, “If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing.”

Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest

Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners

Links

• Exponential: Transform Your Brand by Empowering Instead of Interrupting by Jeff Rosenblum
• The Score Takes Care of Itself: My Philosophy of Leadership by Bill Walsh
• Who: The A Method for Hiring by Geoff Smart

The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience

Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”

The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.

This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!

This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.

Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!