Lucas Root is an accomplished speaker, entrepreneur, author, business success mentor, and founder of SGIC Consulting, which works with clients to build a high-performance strategy and implement that strategy across their businesses to achieve the maximum growth potential possible.
With over 19 years of success across banking, technology, investments, health and wellness, athletics, and interactive media (gaming), Lucas helps identify roadblocks to success and where his clients could be heading toward failure. He specialises in speaking to entrepreneurs and business owners on getting their strategy on track for success and massive growth.
Questions
Highlights
Lucas’ Journey
Lucas stated that he did what he thought what the normal person supposed to do, he went to college, and he got a good degree. And then as he was getting out of college, and this is two decades ago, at this point, as he was getting out of college, he got a degree in mechanical engineering and physics and he decided he didn't want to go wear a lab coat, then obviously, there are plenty of people that are engineers or physicists that don't but that was the picture he had in my mind. And so, he went to Wall Street instead.
And the critical thinking component of a science and mathematics based degree made it easy for him to move into the projects world on Wall Street, which very quickly turned into the mergers and acquisitions execution groups. So that's the team that puts together businesses on a merger. And so, he spent more than 17 years putting together businesses on the backside of a merger. And over the course of that time, he got really good at understanding what makes successful businesses work and what creates the opportunity for somebody else to gobble you up, which is what a merger is.
It's one successful company grabbing another company that maybe is less successful and there are significant opportunities for the bigger company to turn the smaller company into something great, or at least they think.
So, after 17 years, he figured he knew a thing or two and he decided to launch out into the world and share the thing or two that he knew. And the truth is now 6 years after launching his consulting business, he can tell you with that absolute certainty that learning really started after he left Wall Street.
He did know a thing or two, but really only a thing or two. But the journey has been incredible. Learning from amazing, incredibly smart, really successful business leaders on Wall Street set him up for the learning that he was going to do afterwards, the learning that he’s done since leaving as a consultant, as a business coach and as a mentor.
And he continued to learn with smart, talented, capable, hardworking, successful business leaders. And he’s delighted to say that among his clients is the Pokemon Company, which is the largest and longest relationship that he’s had as a consultant. So, he’s been with them since the beginning, 6 years now.
And he has 13 other companies of various sizes, ranging from a few 100,000 in annual revenue to 10’s of millions. And then, of course, there's the Pokemon Company which is much, much larger than any of the rest.
And his learning, again, the real learning started after he left Wall Street, when he started working with the Pokemon Company, when he started working with smaller businesses, he’s loved every step of it, and he’s come to experience the market in a very different way than what he expected.
Strategies to Ensure That Companies Are Increasing Their Earning Potential, Retaining Customer, Having Fans Spread Good News About Their Business
Me: Alright, so you work with businesses and strategy, just in terms of listening to you speak just now, in terms of how you describe the companies; you describe them based on the amount of revenue that they were earning.
So, our podcast is Navigating the Customer Experience and of course people listen to this podcast primarily to figure out what are some new innovative, different ways that they can utilise to ensure that you're retaining their existing customers, as well as attracting new customers, but actually getting customers who will remain loyal to them, because I think that's what every business ideally aims for, loyal customers who will spread great things about their business.
So, based on your experience as a consultant in the last 6 years working with these different range of companies, what are some of the key things that you have coached them on as it relates to strategy to ensure that they are increasing their earning potential, retaining their customers, having raving fans who will spread good news about their business, which will help them to save less money on marketing and advertising, because their customers are the ones who will be spreading that news about them, what's been your experience there?
Lucas shared that he loves the whole premise of this show, because he thinks people spend far too little time thinking about their customer experience and you're 100% right, that's the place people should be focused.
One of the reasons that he really enjoys the Pokemon Company is because of how focused they are on their brand, and on their customer, who their customer is, how they interact with their customer, what the customer wants out of the brand. One of his partners inside the Pokemon Company, his sort of most exciting story to tell on a daily, weekly, monthly basis is when he gets a customer service call of somebody who's dissatisfied and he can turn that person into a potentially a raving fan, he can take that unhappy customer experience, which doesn't happen very often, of course, and turn it into somebody who's absolutely delighted.
So number one, the first piece of the answer to your question is, make sure that your customer service, so when people call in, make sure that your customer service is absolutely top of the line. He started out with an answer from the Pokemon Company, but his smallest client is a few $100,000 in annual revenue and they told him a story last week, actually last week where a potential sale called in and they answered the phone.
And the first thing out of this guy's mouth was, “You're already a step ahead because you answered the phone.”Now, he doesn't know about you, but if somebody is calling him to buy from him, personally, his priority is to make sure that he answers the phone. If that was his response that tells him that other people in that area, in that industry were not answering the phone, he was being sent to voicemail.
Why would you send a person who's ready to buy from you now to voicemail? Why would you do that?
So, step one is make sure that you give your customers who are reaching out to you the best possible experience they can possibly have every single time, so it doesn't matter where they're reaching out to you chat, email, calling into your customer service, walking into your storefront.
He realised that the industry is pushing harder and harder to have everybody move into automated response scenarios. So, your emails are automated, your Instagram or LinkedIn or Twitter responses are automated.
So, if somebody reaches out to you, they get an automated response and he understands why because in general, the customer service industry believes that him the customer wants an answer fast. But the truth is, that's not actually what he wants.
He’s here to tell you as both a consultant and a consumer, he’s both, he doesn't stop being a consumer as a consultant, he doesn't stop being a consumer as a business owner, as both a consultant and a consumer, what he wants is the right answer. And he wants the right answer with the minimum possible work from him to get there. The easier it is for him to get to the right answer, the more satisfied he’s going to be and he has yet to encounter an automated response line that gives him the answers that he wants easily.
So, number one, make sure that your customers are getting the best possible service they can and if your automated responses are not the best possible service, then move away from that. Counter to business strategy 101 in the world right now, and he understands that, but trust, big companies, small companies, every single person who is moving into automated responses are risking their customer relationship and the more that your customer believes that they themselves are unimportant to you, the more that you as a brand are going to become unimportant to them.
Number two, and he puts them in this order intentionally. Focus on what your brand delivers and be great at that. And this, again, goes back to his experience working with the Pokemon Company, if there is one thing that they do, and by the way, the Apple company does the same.
If there's one thing that Pokemon and Apple do that makes them exceptional in the world, it's that they're willing to say no to all of the potential distractions, so that they can stay super duper focused on what it is that their brand delivers and trying and continuing to improve what it means to them to be great at that. Right now, most people think in the reverse, be great at what the brand delivers, and then deliver a great customer experience, he doesn't agree. He worked with some of the largest companies in the world, be great at the customer experience first and then be great at what your brand delivers.
Me: Interesting, that theory. At the end of the day, a lot of times customers will I primarily believe your customers only reach out to you for two reasons. So, they're either calling because they have a problem and that could be a problem with an existing product or service that you deliver. Or they're calling because they're trying to make a request, it could be a request for additional services or products because they're an existing customer, or it could be a new customer who is trying to make a new request for a new product or service. So, other than that, people aren't calling to say, “Hey, Lucas, what's up? What are you doing? How's the sun going in your part of the world?” They're calling because they have a genuine need and I think all businesses go into business for a particular reason to solve a problem. I'm sure you became a consultant because you saw businesses having a need and you could help them solve a problem based on your years of experience and your expertise in a particular area.
Same for me, when I started this company as a Customer Service Trainer, customer service is very bad in Jamaica, and I really wanted to contribute to enhancing the quality of the experiences that we had. And I said, instead of complaining about it with everybody else, why not be a part of the solution and help organizations, both public and private sector to really enhance the quality of the experience that they've had. And I mean, since I've been in business, 12 years, I've seen great improvement, it's not where I want it to be, but it's definitely much better than where it was when I started. So, I think we're all solving a problem, every company, Pokemon is solving a problem, all of your other clients their businesses are solving a problem. So if you're solving a problem, then how do you want that experience to be for those problems that you're solving for customers?
Lucas stated that's 100% right. And do you want to be memorable or forgettable? And if you're memorable, what do you want them to remember? Because you could be memorable in a bad way, which is not what you want.
Advice for Business Owners Who Lack the Constantly Motivated Human Capital
When asked about advice he give to a business owner who lacks the constantly motivated capital, Lucas stated that that's a fun one. He treats it like customer service actually.
He thinks that most businesses have lost track of helping their employees connect to their mission, connect to the values that the company is working through to deliver the service.
And the more that people inside the business and remember, as a business owner, often you have employees and often your employees are the ones that are interacting with your customers.
So, previously, we talked about customer service, it's probably not you, the business owner who's answering the phone; you probably have somebody else answering the phone. Now, to some degree, they'll do what you tell them to do and that's cool. You tell them to smile while they're on the phone, and they will smile while they're on the phone. But at best, if they're in a situation where they're just doing what you tell them to do, at best, what they're going to do is somewhat mechanically execute your orders, and that's good.
But if you want great, you have to be better than just someone who can execute your orders, if you want great, what you need is someone who can execute your orders the way that you would if you were in their shoes, if you were in their, seat if you were the one on the phone.
And the only way to create that is by creating a culture that is connected to the mission of the company. Now, there are a lot of different ways to create a culture that's connected to the mission.
For better or worse, when you start trying to do this, you're going to find that some of the people that are employees right now and maybe even some of your better performers might decide they don't want to be connected to the mission and that might result in you making changes in your staff and that's okay. Because the end result of this and this isn't just coming from him, by the way, you can look up some of the top business strategy, speakers in the world like Gary Vee, who says the same thing. The culture that you create inside your company is the most important thing and it doesn't matter what you have to do to create the right culture and protect that culture.
So, in terms of creating the opportunity for motivation inside your company, for him, the most important thing you can do, the best thing that you can do is to give your employees the opportunity to connect with the mission, or the purpose of the company.
Now, maybe you haven't thought about what the mission or the purpose of your company is, now's a good time to start.
Think about what it is that you're trying to bring to the world through service. Because if you have a product or a service, you're trying to serve a customer, you're trying to serve somebody needs, you're not looking to just sell you're looking to serve. So get focused on what it is that you're trying to bring to the world through service.
Are you trying to bring smiles?
Are you trying to bring ease of transportation or ease of communication?
Are you trying to bring amazing meal experiences for your food service listeners?
Are you trying to bring incredible experiences throughout the islands for your travel listeners?
So, what is it that you're trying to bring to the world through service?
Is it experiences?
Is it satisfaction of needs?
Is it satisfaction of desires, like whatever that is connect to that.
And then spend time with your team, helping them connect to that because their primary job is to serve that need, is to serve that customer through that need.
App, Website or Tool that Lucas Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business
When asked about online resource that he cannot live without in his business, Lucas shared that these days it's Zoom.
Me: COVID has certainly changed our priorities.
Lucas agreed that it really has. Before Zoom, he would have said Microsoft OneNote, or for people who want to use a free version, both Google and Open Office, they both have a tool that's similar to Microsoft OneNote.
He uses OneNote for everything, truly, from keeping track of the things that he owes his employees on a daily basis. And yes, he said that intentionally. He worked for his employees as much as they worked for him.
So, keeping track of what he owes his employees, his sort of let's call it his management dashboard and by management, he means managing himself, keeping track of the different engagements like working with Yanique today, that all happens in OneNote and notes about what he’s doing and how he’s going to show up.
Keys, thoughts about what he needs to be thinking about while he’s going through this interview. His morning routine and things that he does in the morning, the things that he needs to accomplish throughout the day, week, month, all that happens in OneNote.
And he’s writing articles in OneNote, this is actually true. He’s writing a book in OneNote, his previous book, which you can find on his website, he wrote that in OneNote first, and then moved it into an editing tool like that one particularly was in Canva, but he wrote it in OneNote first, it's a simple, incredibly powerful tool. And he thinks he uses it fairly well.
Once he turned his wife on to it she actually has up levelled and uses it even better than he does because she speaks to it. He does everything typing, she actually speaks to it so she uses Microsoft speaks to text in her OneNote, so she'll take voice notes while she's working, she'll record things, OneNote is an amazing tool.
And before Zoom changed the world because of COVID, OneNote was his absolute number one go to tool anywhere ever. And now that we have to use Zoom to do business, or Skype or Go To Meeting, whichever one we're on Microsoft Teams, those are kind of ruling his day, but OneNote is still a very close second.
Books That Have Had the Greatest Impact on Lucas
When asked about books that have had the biggest impact, Lucas shared that he’s a big fan of the Dalai Lama. One of the lesser well known books that have come out of his writings is called The Tibetan Book of the Dead, which he thinks is just an incredibly wonderful book. And it's on his annual reading list. So, he picked that up and touch up on it again, at least once a year, every year.
In addition to that, The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Tim Ferriss, he thinks that a fairly significant portion of what's in there was actually out of date before he even published it. So, the notion of being able to automate your way into a 4 hour workweek while you have a normal job, even when he published it was already reasonably out of date. But what he thinks that people missed in the book, and he’s read it several times now, that's really important, is thinking about your life that way. Thinking about what are the things that I can change the way that I do them, so that they have a less significant impact on my time, on my life, on my energy. And or what are the things that I want to be impacted by and I can change the way that I do them so that they have more impact on me.
So, things that people don't think about are things like a nap, he love naps, really love naps. And if he’s going to take a nap, he doesn't take a nap every day, but if he’s going to take a nap and because he loves them, he wants that to be impactful. And people don't think about a nap in terms of it being impactful but he likes his naps and when he takes them, he really enjoys getting into it, he enjoys taking the nap, he enjoys the way he feels when he’s done with it. He wants that to be an impactful experience.
And the way that he thinks about everything he does all day long, including the nap and the reason he brought that up is because he thinks most people like try to minimize the impact of their naps on their day and he disagrees. If you're going to take a nap, maximize the impact it has, again, enjoy it, get into it, savour it. The way that he thinks about that came out of reading The 4-Hour Workweek because that's the way that he puts together his thought process and he doesn't share it in that way, but that's what he took out of it is, think about the things that you're doing in terms of minimizing, or maximizing the impact that they have, so that the day feels the way you want it to feel.
What Lucas is Really Excited About Now!
Lucas shared that the first is he got involved with a not for profit at the beginning of the summer called the Jericho Centre for Medical Diplomacy, which is focused on bringing truly cutting edge, amazing medical technology to the Palestinians in the occupied West Bank in Jordan because breast cancer right now is one of the biggest impact factors of cancer in that population.
So, he got involved in that because he’s deeply and passionately involved with creating and deepening the experience that he has and that women have around him in the world and supporting women and becoming a much more clean and balanced society with respect to the role that women choose to play.
And so, that's just this little piece of what he’s trying to do to open that up, open the world up. If a woman dies of breast cancer, she doesn't have a choice anymore, she can't play any role anymore, like that's done. And so, bringing really cutting edge medical technology to the Palestinians, which is a population that has limited access to medical technology in general and specifically for this stuff, is one of the things that he’s really excited about. And so, they did a couple of galas over the summer to raise some money and they're going to do a really big one in October or November to raise a lot of money and really start moving this forward in a big way. And that's something he’s very excited about.
And then the second piece, they're two totally separate things, but they're both like really exciting to him is, he’s working with the credibility nation, which is a brand that's trying to bring credibility to humanity. And he’s partnered in with them to do a five day challenge, which is in a week and a half. And for the listeners who want to hear more about this, they can find it on his socials. So, in a week and a half, they're going to do a five day challenge where they train the joiners on how to show up in the world with credibility and how to deepen their connection inside themselves with credibility.
Where Can We Find Lucas Online
Website – www.lucasroot.com
Instagram - @lucroot
Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Lucas Uses
When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Lucas shared that he does and it's not just during times of adversity, he keeps this in the forefront of his mind more or less all of the time, as much as he can. “It's in the midst of chaos lies brilliance.” And to him, what that means is that the more that things get challenging, the larger the opportunity for something amazing to happen.
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Darin Dawson is the Co-Founder and President of BombBomb, a Human-Centered Communication Platform that enables users to use simple, personal video messages to leverage their best asset – themselves!
Darren leads all sales, marketing, customer success and product development at BombBomb, a fast-growing, Colorado-based software company. He's on a mission to re-humanize the planet and he wants to start with your business communication. He believes that human beings have intrinsic value and that every person deserves to be seen, heard and understood. That's why he co-founded BombBomb.
Questions
Highlights
Darin’s Journey
When asked about his journey, Darin shared that he feels like it may be a little bit non typical, so for instance, he never graduated the university, so he didn't go to college, he did but he didn’t graduated as his father said very good advice to him at that age, “Maybe college isn't for you.”
He was always entrepreneurial, he saw that in him and thought that he should pursue that and kind of get after doing his own thing. He grew up on a farm, hard working all his life, got given a good what they call there a Midwestern work ethic and ended up moving to Colorado in 1995 when he was 21 years old and have been there ever since.
So, then graduated school but then started this kind of painting business out in Colorado when he was young, he grew that business, it was actually successful. But then in the late 90s, early 2000s he started being interested in all things to do with internet marketing, Pay Per Click strategies, On Demand strategies, things like that and he got involved in the marketing business, was lucky enough to get ownership in that business, to sell that business and then do that again with another marketing company and then ended up working at a TV station actually running online, marketing the website salespeople for that, also content creators for that and he learned a lot about mass media marketing and really led him to think about what he didn't like about that led him to create BombBomb which he does today.
What BombBomb Does and How Can That Help a Business
Me: Now, we had the awesome pleasure of interviewing one of your employees, Ethan Beaute last year, we had him on our podcast as well as on a Facebook Live and I was supremely blown away by how he responded to my messages through video, I thought it was just brilliant. And so, of course when you reached out to me and I was like, “Oh my goodness, another person from BombBomb but even the person who created it, this is amazing.” So, could you share with our audience for those who may not have listened to Ethan's episode last year or never heard of BombBomb, what is it that BombBomb does and how can that help a business?
Darin shared that first of all, he loves that guy (Ethan). And actually Ethan is a dear friend and he convinced him to leave that TV station where they worked together and come to BombBomb with him.
And so, he's been there over 10 years, he couldn't have done it without him, he's fantastic, he's their Chief Evangelist, he's a good friend and a valued, valued person to him. He believes and we at BombBomb believe that all human beings has an intrinsic value, that we are special, that we are unique, how we communicate with each other is unique.
And the software that they enable you to use is sending video messages to the people who matter in your life, which could be the people in your life, personal life, it could be colleagues that you work with, it could be your prospects, it could be your existing customers.
So, you can send yourself video messages so they can see you, know you, and understand you in that way, so it's very simple to do, takes no time at all and they allow you to do in every message platform that you may be using.
So that could be your email, that could be in social media messenger systems, it could be in LinkedIn for example, so anywhere you're saying a message, they allow you to use a video as well.
Why We Should Use Video to Connect and Communicate Daily with People
Darin stated that if you believe, like he just mentioned that we are unique human beings, the way we talk is unique, then you should be considering video. And here's a very good example, if he was to ask 10 business owners:
“What is your most valuable asset in your business?”
He believes at least 9 out of 10, maybe 10 out of 10 would tell him that their people are their most valuable asset. But more often, what we're doing is we're hiding these best assets, the ones that we spent a long time interviewing, if you're interviewing a salesperson, you're trying to say, “Are they good with people? Are they good at presenting passion and enthusiasm for your product?” You're trying to assess all these things about people, and then we hire them and then we make them look like and feel like everyone else with text email, texting, phones, all that stuff, phone’s better.
But behind these technologies that we have chat, we're just like everyone else. He thinks we're removing the most uniqueness that we can bring in our people, our diversity, how they interact, and all the things that we want in our culture, in our business, we're withholding from our customers in a lot of ways when we don't put people in front of people more often.
What is Customer Experience and Why it Matters
Me: Now, as we talk about video, and connecting with people daily, and really seeing the intrinsic value in a human being, in your view, Darin, what is customer experience and why do you think it matters?
Darin shared that he believes the customer experience is every touch point that you have with either potential customers or existing customers, anything that could be an in person event, it could be a podcast, it could be a webinar, it could be when he calls your business, and what’s the experience he gets when that phone is picked up by someone who works there, that's it.
So, let him frame it this way. If there were two businesses that did the exact same thing, they sell the exact same service, for the exact same price, how do you decide which one to choose if they're very much the same?
He believes you choose the one you like and that could be for a lot of different reasons. But the experience that you bring ultimately becomes your unique selling proposition that is what makes us unique in a business.
He has a software business, he competes against people who do similar things to what he does, he has some features they don't have, they have some features that he doesn't have, but they are basically the same and at the end of the day, people are going to choose who they know, like and trust, he still believes that that's what they do.
So, in that case, his customer experience has to be better, he wants to deliver on that more over than anything else. It matters in the product, it matters in all these motions that we look at in a business, but to him, again, customer experience is your unique identifier.
Values that BombBomb is Built On
Me: I totally support everything that you just said. And I think a lot of businesses lose focus of that. Now, in trying to deliver that customer experience as you mentioned, is your unique proposition. I think it's important; the organization has to have a really good culture, because customer experience starts from within, how you deal with your employees, how responsive you are to them, how you support them in whatever initiatives they're trying to accomplish. And of course, all businesses came into existence because we're all trying to solve some problem for customers that have a need. And so, could you share with us maybe some of the values that BombBomb is built on that has helped BombBomb to really be able to realize fulfilling those needs for your customers? And why do you think an internal culture needs to be very impactful in order to execute a strong external culture?
Darin shared that they have five core values at BombBomb, they are Relationships, Humility, Flexibility, Service, and Fun.
So, those are five core values and he thinks that really, businesses need to give the people that work there a reason to work there, that's beyond money, that's beyond the work necessarily. Because you can go answer the phone anywhere, you can go do customer success service anywhere, you can do sales anywhere, you can run these teams anywhere now and from anywhere for that matter.
He believes that we want to give people a purpose behind why they do what they do at BombBomb. So, they do that in a few different ways. First of all, their book is called Re humanize Your Business and that's what they want to do with their product but their mission at BombBomb is to humanize the planet.
And this is what he means by it has to matter more than the word. And locally, they support a few organizations, one is called Dream Centers in Colorado Springs, it actually provides free health care for women and also it provides homeless families off of the streets of their city and into a safe place where they can thrive, where they can go to school, where the mothers can get an education.
They have the women's clinic and they have a thing called Mary's Home and they're fantastic. And those are two organizations they support and they support them financially, but they also support them with their time. So, every year they do a trunk or treat for the children at Mary's Home.
And another organization they support is called the Springs Rescue Mission and it's in Colorado Springs, and they support the homeless population, helping them to get out of homelessness, a cycle of homelessness, help them to get food to eat. Just last week, he took about 30 BombBomb folks down there and they did a barbecue where they cooked burgers, he smelled like Burger King when he got back.
They grilled like 300 burgers and hotdogs and they serve those people. So, it's beyond money, why do they do what they do?
Because they're humanizing your business but they're also trying to humanize the planet and that planet starts right their own backyard in Colorado Springs, Colorado.
What is Means to Re Humanize People
Me: You spoke a little bit just now about rehumanizing your business. And when we read your bio, a big part of BombBomb’s mission is to re humanize the planet. And so, could you explain to us in very layman terms, what does it mean to re humanize people? What are we lacking that we need re humanization? Could you share with us what does that really mean?
Darin shared that he thinks its two things in your business it may exist that he thinks participating right now in this insanely, it's like nuclear proliferation but it's different, it's this digital pollution.
So, after he gets off of this call, he will have no less than 30 unsolicited emails in his inbox, LinkedIn will have a few and people are just being bombarded. And so, we need to get back to building know, like and trust with the people that we want to work with.
We need to communicate in a way that solves problems for people we know that we can solve problems for. He thinks the problem right now in marketing and sales is that we're just holistically blasting everyone to kingdom come with unwanted, unsolicited messaging. And frankly, he doesn't even believe it's from real people anymore. So, all we're doing is we're desensitizing people, nobody believes that you actually wrote the email anymore, actually wrote the LinkedIn messenge, they thing it was written for you, sent by some sort of system and what that does is it takes away the idea of reciprocity on his part.
Five years ago, even three years ago, if you sent him an email even if he wasn't interested, the reciprocity effect says, “I'm going to respond to you even if I'm not interested.”
Now, we've made it so very easy to ignore everyone, everyone is complicit in this digital pollution that we're all participating in, we send too much of stuff that doesn't matter.
Therefore, the stuff that does goes by the wayside. So, he believes using personal video, personal messaging to people succinctly for them, to them, from human to human, to solve the problem that you very well solved for this type of business. So, you have to have that figured out. What's the problem I solve?
How do we succinctly solve it in 20 seconds, deliver a video for that person? Or in the customer experience, side, if it's retention. Don't make him feel like just another number of your business. How many customers do you have? Don't make him feel like number 569, make him feel like the only one.
And so, how do you do that, you do that by taking time and sending personalized communications whenever possible, doesn't have to be every time but he calls them “Moments That Matter.”
What are the very important moments that matter when he knows? Easy way to do this is to say to yourself, “Would this be better said face to face? If so, send a video.”
So, that's re humanizing your business. We’re re humanizing the planet or humanizing these things, he believes people have intrinsic value, he believes all over the world people are being dehumanized right now probably more than they ever have been, ever.
We have more slavery, we have more sex trafficking, we have more abuse, we need to get in front of that. And to him, we need to do our part here and so that's why, as he mentioned, they support these local organizations.
They actually even support a community in Africa, where some kids in Africa got to adopt BombBombers, it was amazing. So, the kids got to look at pictures of people who work here, choose them to be someone they want to communicate with and then, of course, they help the organization but they help with food and medical care and things like that. But he’s got to tell you, some of the best joy happens from these kids sending letters to people who work here. And that's a connection that they build.
So, they're now we're re humanizing the people of BombBomb by doing that, just as much as they are those kids in Africa. So, that's a big part of their mission. He just believes that the world we live in, if we just want to turn a blind eye to it, that's not responsible as a business owner.
App, Website or Tool that Darin Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business
When asked about online resource that he cannot live without in his business, Darin shared that it's a pretty generic one, but it's Spotify. What couldn't he live without; he can’t live without a podcast. He listens to podcasts like crazy, he got a bit of a commute, and he enjoys it. His kids play soccer 4 days a week, so when he’s waiting for them to be done; he’s on the podcast. So, he’s trying to build himself up to that. So, he’s going to say Spotify.
Books That Have Had the Greatest Impact on Darin
When asked about books that have the biggest impact, Darin shared that Seth Godin was a very much a part of the foundation of this business in early 2000s. He has read every Seth Godin book he’s ever written. And so, he’s just going say Seth Godin. So, Seth Godin Podcast, Seth Godin Books. The early ones, he thinks it was even Purple Cow, New Edition: Transform Your Business by Being Remarkable it was really transformational. Just about being unique and how you stand out. And I believe the book, he might get this wrong is 1000 true fans, it might have been one of his earlier books is the idea if you have 1000 fans, that you'll never have to work again. He thinks we're seeing this, he was an early projector of this, this influencer movement that we see very common today and that's exactly what he was talking about in that book. And that's how they thought about sending video messaging that you could be this influencer.
And then he’s going to say, Verne Harnish wrote a book called Scaling Up: How a Few Companies Make It…and Why the Rest Don’t (Rockefeller Habits 2.0) and then Scaling Up 2.0 and it's about mastering the Rockefeller habits as he calls it. And these are just these business motions that has made them very successful at BombBomb, how to run the business, how to plan for the business, how to do stand ups in the morning, all these things are very fundamentally ingrained in who they are at BombBomb. So, Seth Godin and Scaling Up 2.0, those are his two recommendations.
What Darin is Really Excited About Now!
Darin shared that he’s really excited about this growth team that they have put together, he gets to lead, it's fantastic, it's a cross functional team many people coming from lots of different parts of the organization are focused on how do they get after better growth for the business? So, that means acquiring new customers, better keeping the customers that they have, making the product more aligned towards those things. So, it's been a lot of fun and he loves that team.
Where Can We Find Darin Online
Website – www.bombbomb.com
LinkedIn – Darin Dawson
Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Darin Uses
When asked about quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Darin shared that it's Peter Drucker and the quote is, “Focus is the key to all economic success.” So, if he needs to get refocused, if his team does, he brings that out. Focus is the key. So, are we focused? Do we need to get more focused? Are there things that we should stop doing so we can start doing the right things?
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Links
The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience
Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”
The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.
This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!
This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.
Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!
Michael Arnold is the author of the book, Slacking Off: A Successful Way to Work from Home and he wrote it especially for those who are considering to work or are working from home and are seeking a work life balance.
He has been a work from home entrepreneur for over 15 years and he's worked with major corporations such as Cox Automotive, Verizon Super Pages, and Major Commercial Finance companies. His journey wasn't a smooth sailing one since he is also human just like us and he made many mistakes along the way. But he has lived to share some wisdom from his own experience to help people on their work from home journey to create successful actions on their own.
Questions
Highlights
Michael’s Journey
Me: Even though we read a little bio about our guests, we always like to give them the opportunity to kind of just share with us a little bit about their journey. How is it in your own words would you describe how you got from where you are now to where you were before? How did you get to where you are today?
Michael shared that a lot of ups and downs and experimenting in different industries led him to be a work from home entrepreneur and a father and let's say, contributor to the community. And he thinks ultimately, like most of us, he started out trying to be everything he could be at a young age before he was 18.
Work normal jobs like McDonald's, Christmas tree lots, doing landscaping and lots of different things at a very, very young age. And still was looking to find what he enjoyed and that became understanding businesses really fast and sharing, whether it be speaking, or presenting or consulting and he thinks ultimately, when we learn from our mistakes, and we're better people for it, and we've survived the misses, the bullets that fly our way, metaphorically and can live to tell about it, he thinks that's essentially what's brought him here, is his ability to survive through all things or persevere, if you will.
Slacking Off: A Successful Way to Work From Home What is it About and Who is it Targeted for?
Me: So, in your bio, we read that you wrote a book and we were having a brief discussion about this prior to actually starting the recording. And so, for those of our listeners that didn't catch the name of that book, it's Slacking Off: A Successful Way to Work from Home. So, could you share with us maybe in five to eight or nine minutes, just what the book is about? Who is it targeted for? And how can it help our listeners.
Michael shared that he wrote this book because he’s been working from home for 15 years, and he’s worked for himself, he’s worked for other companies, major corporations, very large corporations that have 1000s and 1000s of employees. And he’s been mostly in either a sales role or a strategy role or a management role and what he found over the years is that basically people around him, including himself were struggling a lot with work life balance and usually the really successful guy or gal that's really good at work is missing out at home and very rarely are they balancing between the two and it doesn't necessarily mean these people don't exist, but it's just rare.
And a lot of times people who are putting themselves into work obsessively are successful, but again, not happy. And so, he created this book to help people who want to actually take that obsession which is amazing, it's not a bad thing; it's a great thing when you're doing it in the right ways.
And just get a little more time for themselves and help them invest more in themselves, whether that's with time and effort or even money.
Of course, if they find something that's good for them, because themselves, actually they are the most valuable product that exists, you can buy a car, you could buy a house, you can buy nice clothes, you can have all these things. But unless you're investing in yourself, it really isn't going to pay off as big as it would be if you did invest in yourself because that's what ultimately this book is to help you invest more time, effort into yourself and do it in a way that's unique. Pun intended.
Competencies or Behaviors Needed to Be Successful When Working from Home
Michael shared that he’s using his book as the foundation here for this question because this is exactly how he set this book up was exactly the things you need to know and the things that you should have in place when you work from home, whether you're experienced or not. And that is one; you should recognize what you do when you're not working.
It sounds so obvious, most people are like, “Yeah, of course, I know when I'm not working.” But do you really because what he found over the years is that even for himself, which he uses himself as the example here is that sometimes what he actually considers not working for himself is different from what he considers not working for somebody else.
And he'll just very lightly explain a little more in that so there's no confusion there, nebulousness. Basically, what he would look at you and say, you're working when you're doing this and not working when you're on Facebook or Twitter or whatever, versus him might be different.
He might judge himself less than he judges, or more or less than he judges you.
And so, what he did is he put himself up on the microscope and said how much scrutiny, all unbiasness, just straightforward, looking at himself, what's actually working, and what's not considered working.
Is being on Facebook for 5 minutes a problem, probably not that big of a deal in the middle of a work day.
But it's not technically working and it doesn't matter that your boss or your company or yourself, it doesn't matter what your employer says, what matters is actually how you feel and usually when people aren't doing a task as they are paid to do, eventually they start to, let's just say, have more problems, it starts very small.
So, ultimately, everybody starts off with what's called a slacking off day, which is you take one day and you just slack off, you actually avoid work the entire day, on purpose, and you just slack off, that's it.
And so, the only caveat or disclaimer to that entire thing is that you write down what you do, if it's reading a magazine, reading a book, on Facebook, watching TV, exercising, whatever it is you do to slack off, it's important to recognize that first and foremost, before you do anything.
Then you carry that into your work day and you have that list, whether it's digital or on paper in front of you to actually help you recognize when you're actually starting to slack off so that you (a) recognize that the next chapter of what you need to do, which is start to actually make time for yourself to slack off.
Why is it that some of us slack off? There's probably hundreds of reasons.
But he thinks fundamentally what the purpose and confidence that you need, or the let's just say consistency you need to have is being able to move throughout your day, and do it in a way that you're happy with. Do it in a way that keeps you going and if you have time to slack off in the morning or in the evening, or whenever, you'll probably slack off less during the times that you probably shouldn't be.
And so, ultimately you want to make sure that you recognize for yourself and keep yourself accountable because it doesn't matter if your boss is mean or not, doesn't matter if you're being watched or not, you're in an office or you're not in an office, the end of the day, the only person that judges you, is you and God. So, at the end of the day, you need to be right with yourself and God more than you need to be right with other people.
And of course, you should be respectful and ethical but that's kind of the gist, that's just a little piece. There's obviously a lot more but that should answer the question.
Changes in Customer Experience Since the Pandemic
Me: Could you also share with us as an entrepreneur yourself, there's a lot of things that have changed since the pandemic and you are a consumer yourself, you mentioned before we started recording that you were in an Uber for the first time in over a year. Have you seen customer experience change much since the pandemic as a consumer or even as a business owner?
Michael stated of course, it's consistently changing and something he wanted to say early on was that forgive him for not coming out with this book before the pandemic, because he started writing in 2019. But he thinks ultimately, it's a dream for most people to work from home, so, the fact that the businesses that are existing now are tailoring work from home experience and making it easier, it actually pushed a lot of people on the fence of making their employees work from home, making their businesses more work from home friendly, making their products more work from home friendly, and all the technology that comes with it.
There's a lot of reasons why working from home is beneficial and there's a lot of reasons why in certain jobs, they're not. But ultimately what we're finding, and please chime in here if you have something to say about it. But is that it's actually not as hard to work from home for a lot of these businesses, or even these services to provide work from home experiences as we thought.
Look at the weather channel people who are giving you the weather forecast from their home office, it's not that hard.
Me: I agree with you. But I think as you said, a lot of people were forced to embrace the whole work from home as the pandemic came, they were forced into it, if it was a choice that they had to make, and things were operating normal and we weren't going through a pandemic, I highly doubt that many companies would have even thought of implementing it.
I've met with many business owners, or even senior managers who when they look at their balance sheets, in terms of so much savings that they've made as an organization, productivity has actually improved with employees working from home. Of course, with everything there are advantages and disadvantages, because I'm sure there are some other things that may still suffer as a result. But it still doesn't mean that there are a lot of industries where people were working, that they couldn't have worked from home and been productive and created the same or even better results.
Michael shared that there are a couple reasons for him, but he’s curious, what's Yanique’s thought about why somebody who's working from home is producing more than somebody who's in the office?
Me: Well, I worked from home before the pandemic, so I'm not even sure if I could compare myself. But if I use persons who I know personally, I have a friend that works in an insurance company, he works in the pensions department and one of the things he said to me why he feels he's more productive is he works many times way past 5:00 pm, because I guess when you're at work, when it's 5:00 pm, you get up, you pack up your stuff, and you head home, but because he's home, he just keeps working and sometimes he works until 9:00 pm – 10:00 pm, it’s when he looks at the clock, he's like, “Oh, my I’m still working, it's time to shut the computer down and just kind of unwind.” So, I don't know if other people fall into that category but that was his experience. And I was like that wouldn't have happened if you were working in the office unless you were working on some special projects and it was required for you to stay back late. Ordinarily, people would just leave at the time that work ends and they go home.
Michael agreed and stated that that is exactly what occurs, we're our own worst critic and we're our biggest driver. So, it's like we're not only our own worst critic, but we're also our own motivator, that kind of leads into to what he was saying earlier, it's like that's exactly why he wrote this.
He wrote this for Yanique’s friend, he wrote this for him, because and of course, anybody else who is like so happy about working from home that they're starting to form these habits that they're not paying attention to of overworking to the point where eventually, it doesn't actually produce much.
Now, he wants to say something, he’s very much for somebody putting everything they got into something and he definitely don't advocate people being lazy. The point of the book being slacking off is actually to appeal to the person who is struggling because maybe they're slacking off too much or maybe because you want more time to yourself, but ultimately recognizing that it's okay to work 12 hours and 15 hours a day, it's actually not a problem.
He’s doing business 7 days a week and he still always use his own book as a tool and a roadmap for himself to make sure he maintains a work life balance. But ultimately, you just you want to make sure you're taking care of yourself and you want to make sure that you sustain properly, because at the end of the day, you cannot not invest in yourself whatever it's nutrition or exercise or reading.
There are 60 books a year are some of the top CEOs in the world, 60 books a year is what they read while managing their own work and life, and he’s sure they have their ways of doing it.
But ultimately, a year after doing that, working 9 hours a day until 10, o'clock at night, or whatever, eventually it becomes “Either I'm doing it because I'm great. Or I'm doing it for different reasons, or whatever.”
But as long as they don't have built in time for themselves, eventually, they're slaving away to a job and doing way more, and getting paid hourly, that's great. But it's like it may not be worth it.
He knows people, they get paid $1,000 to $2,000 an hour, and they work nonstop but they spend time with their family, they spend time for themselves and everybody's happy, or at least happy enough. And so, there's a difference.
So, that's really ultimately he thinks what's happening too which Yanique totally hit the nail on the head, what occurs we overwork ourselves, because we're like, that's what employers who are experienced in working from home, having worked from home people, that's what they know, they know that ultimately, you may get a lazy guy who will manipulate people or gal who manipulate people and you work very little but you'll get in majority people who will overwork.
How Michael Stays Motivated Every Day
Me: Could you share with our guests; how do you stay motivated every day? You work from home, what are some of the things that you do to kind of motivate yourself? Because the reality is we're human and even if you really enjoy what you do, which I do, personally. And so, there are days when physically, I may not feel as enthusiastic but there are little things that I'll do like maybe exercise or listen to some music to kind of just get my mood or energy up, what are some of the things that you do to kind of keep yourself motivated?
When asked about how he stays motivated, Michael shared that another part of his book is on this, he totally understands, some days you are less motivated than others. There's actually a lot of reasons for that. What he personally do is, he raises his purpose, if he’s feeling less motivated today for whatever reason, he increases his purpose. So, if his purpose and this is another chapter in his book is to have you look at the reasons you're doing what you're doing…
Why do you work?
“It may be paying my bills?”
Don't be general, let's be specific.
Why do you do it?
“I do it to pay for this, I do it to pay for that. I want to go on vacation. I want to do this, I want to have that. Oh, wow, I didn't realize I expect to have a raise in the next year, or whatever it is.”
But your purposes are what drive you and we forget about those purposes if we've been doing things for a very long time, unless we're so successful that we're building new purposes.
But a barrier, whether it's personal or outside of yourself is something that is raised up in front of you, it's anything, it's unmotivated, it's problems, it's lack of winning, whatever it is. He just increases his purpose.
He says something's holding me back. Listen, he’s facing something right now that's stopping him or attempting to stop him from doing things. He won't necessarily get into details, but he'll just say, every day he'll reach a point where it's definitely a little bit frustrating because he wants to go do one thing and he’s got all these other things trying to get in his way.
And all he remembers and know is that as a being, nothing stops him ever. The only thing that actually stops him is him, that's it.
There's no one and nothing that's ever truly ever stopped him from doing or getting what he wants ever.
But as a being, what you're talking about is motivation that does stop you.
So, just remembering like, if you can't figure out your reasons for why you're doing what you're doing, or you can't increase, add more reasons, add more things if you're unmotivated, that's what he does, he adds more things.
And he says, “Okay, I want all these things and that's why I do what I do. I now want double that, triple that.”
And he adds, he adds and he adds and he adds, give him more reasons why you do what you do. If you're unmotivated, add more reasons why you want to do more, you want more, you build more, not less.
A lot of people have a tendency to get lazy and downtrodden when they're not getting what they want himself included, and you just have to remind yourself, you're a producer and producing is what makes us happy when we're moving and shaking no matter what that is we're doing. So, increase your purposes is the simple answer.
App, Website or Tool that Michael Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business
When asked about online resource that he cannot live without in his business, Michael stated that he'd say just honestly, the calendar, Google Calendar, Apple. He uses the calendar a lot, he thinks if he didn't use it digitally, he would use a planner.
He thinks back in the old days, people used to use the book planners is just what they were with little calendars on them and that's how they wrote their appointments, and they look at their schedule.
Whether you're drawing it on a piece of paper, or you have it digitally, those calendars are everything. At the end of the day, time is all we got, that's really what we have, and we're either selling our time, or we're buying it. So, that should be the first thing that you teach your kid is about how to manage their time, that should be the number one thing other than obviously, how to survive of course.
But time is important, calendars are important for you, they are tools for you to use. He also wrote this book for the person that was like him, who, for years, refused to use a calendar, because he didn't want to be predictable, he did not want to be predictable for himself or anything.
He likes the adventure of spontaneous movement and things. He was that guy that would just barely make it to the deadline, but he wasn't ever late, he would just barely make it to the appointment, wasn't really late and he liked that and he could manage it very well. And he became very good at shooting from the hip and winning but when he actually started doing things on a calendar, goodness, then he was dangerous.
Books That Have Had the Greatest Impact on Michael
When asked about books that have had the biggest impact, Michael shared that there's a couple of books one he would say, Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It by Chris Voss, that's a great book on negotiating. He'll share 3. The 10X Rule: The Only Difference Between Success and Failure by Grant Cardone. The 10X Rule, he was very surprised how good that was, he's a great guy (Grant Cardone), everything he stands for has been tremendous. And then there's another one called The Reluctant Messiah, which has been a really interesting book, it's more of a kind of a fictional. It's called the Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach. It's kind of a book that takes you on this journey of a guy trying to coach another guy to help him through his life and it's just very metaphorical. But man, is it huge, it's such a great book. And he’s not a big fiction guy, so when he looked at it, he was like, he read it, but it blew his mind. It was very, very cool.
What Michael is Really Excited About Now!
Michael shared that he’s really excited about Slacking Off, he’s excited about the book. Excited about getting this out to as many people right now during their work from home all over the world.
He created this book because he saw so many people having problems and becoming unhappy in their life and he created this to help those people, whether they looked at one chapter or all of them, it's a very simple, easy book, you can read it in like an hour and a half it's very, very simple, but it's full of stuff.
Other than that, he works currently in a medical technology field where he’s trying to help a company name ROM Technology, essentially just develop business with them and help them grow as a company and continue to just progress, he supports them through a lot of different efforts. But it's mostly focused to help people get better after surgery and rehab, their legs or knees or hips, so they don't necessarily have to leave their house to do a certain amount of rehabilitation.
It also helps lower narcotic usage so that we have less people taking pain pills, it gets them better faster. So, a lot of time is dedicated to that too and he’s very excited about it because it helps people and It costs less money and it drives down their narcotic usage, which he’s not a fan of people taking pain pills unless it's absolutely necessary. So, it's a really, really great product and great company and they have such a great team and there are so many people supporting, so many doctors of specialties that doesn't even have anything to do with rehab, love it, and are supporting it. And he’s been spending a lot of time trying to help them grow and do everything he can to play his part for sure.
Where Can We Find Michael Online
Facebook – SlackingOff
Twitter – @SlackingOffBook
Instagram – @slackingoffbook
Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Michael Uses
When asked about quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Michael shared that he uses so many quotes. This quote came from Sir Winston Churchill, “Kites rise highest against the wind, not with it.” Doesn't mean rebel against everybody but what it means is, do what you do and if you believe in something go for it. Doesn't matter if people say, don't go this way or you can't do this, or you can't create a podcast, you can't do your own business, do it. Do it, jump, take your risks and you'll surprise yourself, you'll very much surprised yourself.
Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest
Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners
Links
The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience
Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”
The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.
This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!
This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.
Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!
Jason S. Bradshaw is a global strategic adviser to C-suite executives and start-ups, a keynote speaker on customer and employee experience, digital transformation and leading through crisis.
He has led transformative change with some of the most recognizable brands like Target, Fairfax and Volkswagen. Delivering phenomenal customer-centric growth including over 200% increase in lead generation, $36 million in e-commerce sales in year one, and decades of customer and employee metrics improvements.
He is a best-selling author on customer and employee experience, recipient of over 40 industry awards and voted 1 of 30 global gurus on customer service and experience.
Questions
Highlights
Jason’s Journey
Me: Even know we read your bio and it really does sum up all you've done in your lifetime. We always like to hear from our guests, in their own words a little bit about their journey, how they got to where they are today. And I have quite an idea because I've read about half of your book, it's all about CEX so I do know a little bit, but maybe you could just share that summary for us so that our guests can get a great understanding of who you are.
Jason shared that his journey started at the age of 14, like so many young teenagers, he wanted to buy stuff and he could have gone and worked at a local store or he could do something different, he went down the path of doing something different and started selling his own telecommunication and computer hardware and software.
And it really came about because he had this undying curiosity of this thing called business, his parents had side hustles, his grandparents had their own businesses and he just thought, there’s got to be a smarter way than just going to work at the local supermarket and getting minimum wage was not the fast track to get the nice shiny gadgets he wanted to buy.
So, it all started at that first business, but at the age of 12, he can remember saying to dad, “Can you buy me this business magazine?” And he looked at him like he was some crazy kid, but he did in a way. And when he was interviewed at 14 years of age, he said, “I can't compete on price, but I can compete on the service that I deliver.”
And that has been the hallmark of his career. For over 20 years, he’s worked with some of the world's largest brands, helping them significantly improve the experiences that they deliver through caring about their customers. And this is a journey, not a destination.
So, certainly over the 20 years, the way he talk about it, the things that he’s done and the results that he’s delivered has improved, but it all comes down to those very early days where he was curious about business and at the same time of having that curiosity, he wasn't just reading about how to sell stuff but he was reading people like Tom Peters and his book The Pursuit of Wow!: Every Person’s Guide to Topsy-Turvy Times, and about how you can differentiate yourself in more ways than just through product and price.
The Importance of Employee Experience and Customer Experience
Me: Now, as I mentioned earlier, I started reading your book, It's All about CEX!: The Essential Guide to Customer and Employee Experience. And I just want you to maybe share one or two examples of just experiences you've had either working in an organization where you saw that the employee experience is just as important as the customer experience or even in a capacity where you played a leadership role and you saw that it really played an impactful part. Because as you mentioned in the book, there are times when you said some senior leadership persons see customer experience as a feel good type of thing and they don't necessarily see the bottom line impact of it.
And you gave quite a few examples of if you take care of people inside of course, they will take care of external customers, and that will create loyalty and retention. But just give us maybe two examples that you've had, as I said, either as a leader or just working in an organization as an employee.
Jason shared that he can remember starting a job with a telecommunications company as the National Customer Service Manager of an enterprise team and he didn't know it at the time, but sometime after starting one of the people more senior than him said to him, “The reason we gave you the team that we gave you was because we figured it's been broken for so long, if you get it wrong, what's it matter?”
It's been broken for so long. And what he walked into was he thinks he would call it the departure lounge, because people were leaving the team, leaving the business just as fast as you could recruit them when he turned up. And you can imagine what that's like, you've got new people that are worried about getting through the trial period, of their probation period, you've got new people that absolutely have not got the skills or the ingrained training around what they're meant to be doing.
And then the only tenured people or the majority of the tenured people within the team are there because they're fearful that they can't get another job. And so, you don't necessarily have the talent, you have what you have.
And every metric and they were serving corporate customers, every metric that there was, was failed.
And wind forward just six months, and every metric was being achieved, they were no longer being referred to as the departure lounge, because they had some turnover when he first started, but that was intentional turnover as they rebuilt the team.
And rebuilding the team was about really being clear with their team members about what success looked like, about providing them with regular coaching bites. So, not expecting someone to know everything from day one, or trying to train them everything from day one, but consistently improve their skills.
And then the third thing was bringing humanity into the team. So, if someone made a mistake, not using that as a reason to chastise them, or belittle them, but rather using that as an opportunity to help them learn and grow.
Now, there is always a limit to that one, someone can't make a mistake, the same mistake every day for 50 days. But if you take it a genuine approach that people turn up wanting to do a great job, and you enable them to do so and when they have a misstep, you walk them through that, the results are phenomenal.
And like he said, in 6 months, in under 6 months, we went from meeting no metrics to being the only team meeting all the metrics. And those metrics, importantly, weren't just organizational metrics, they were every month judged by corporate performance of their customers.
So, the customers that they were serving had contractual service levels that were different to each other, and they had to meet them all. And so, he thinks that's a real testament to what can happen when you actually start caring about the employees.
And, of course, it's not just in contact centres where that may makes sense, it matters everywhere. And equally, not caring about your employees can have the opposite effect of what he was just explaining.
He worked for a company where there was a new senior leader joined the leadership team and that individual believed in one thing, cost cutting.
And if you had a conversation around, “Do we have the $2 biscuit or the $2.10 cent biscuit in the lunch room, in the break room?”
Well, then the first response was, “Can we get the $1.90 biscuit and we're going to limit the number of biscuits we put out each day because people can't have two biscuits.” And when you have someone come in and disrupt a culture in that respect, what ends up happening is a whole lot of inefficiencies because people spend their time talking and gossiping around how things have changed for the worse and inevitably start looking for work elsewhere as opposed to being focused on the mission of the company.
Areas Where Organizations Have Place Emphasis in Light of the Global Pandemic
Me: So, the employee experience is just as important as the customer experience. I know you're in Australia, I guess you could share a little bit about how COVID has impacted customer experience in your parts of the world. But are there some areas that you think organizations have had to maybe give a little bit more emphasis to, especially in light of this global pandemic?
I know a lot of people have to be working from home, have you seen any trends where people had to make a change or shift in terms of their approach to employee experience and customer experience since the pandemic versus pre pandemic?
Have people had to exercise a little bit more empathy and compassion towards people and is it a case where employees are less tolerant if organizations are not extending these types of behaviors to them, and does that impact the external customer?
How have you seen it playing out on your side of the world?
Jason shared that across Australia and North America where the majority of his clients are, the number one thing that he knows the pandemic has impacted organizations is the level of trust that they have in their employees.
And he means that in a really great way, think of the organizations 13/15 months ago would have never considered letting people work from home. And through necessity, they had to, and they had to also trust that their employees were going to do the right thing when they were working at home and he feels that that trust has been paid back 10 times by employees.
The real challenge now as different parts of the world open up again, is will that trust be extended, was it a situational trust?
Or was it really the turning point that led to trusting and we've certainly seen a lot in the media around different companies and how they're embracing or not embracing a flexible work environment.
But definitely, he sees that on the main there is a greater willingness to have that flexibility with employees, which ultimately leads to a better experience for customers and that's because if an employee feels empowered and trusted to do the right thing, then they're going to do the right thing more times than not.
The other thing that has occurred is and he loves the word empathy that Yanique mentioned, is that to an extent, customers have become certainly in the early parts of the pandemic, that they themselves have had more empathy towards who they were doing business with because everyone was in this together, nothing more like a common cause to bind people together, whether it be customers or employees.
The real challenge though is what companies have done and learned through the pandemic. So, at the very beginning of the pandemic, you had empathy from customers, because they were living the same pain that the people that were serving them were living them regardless of socio demographics, everyone's lives got disrupted, some more than others but everyone’s lives got disrupted. The real challenge though is that we're 18 months in some countries, we're 18 months into the pandemic and there are companies still using the pandemic as an excuse for bad customer service.
There's a telephone company that he won't name names, but the telephone company is a very large company and when you contact them today, whether it be via telephone, by web form, via online chat, the very first thing that they say to you is that, “Due to the pandemic, there we are experiencing significant delays.”
Now, they have a large outsourced operation that, yes, 18 months ago was having some problems, but they've also had 18 months to find a solution to that problem. And organizations need to move beyond the pandemic as a reason for not delivering a great experience for customers.
And the research is there to back that up, 30% of consumers will now leave a business after just one bad experience and it's easy for them to do so. There are companies that are doing things today that they just 2 years ago would have never thought they would be doing but they're doing it because they have to survive.
And that becomes the customer's new expectations, once you start doing home delivery because of the pandemic, as soon as your country opens up, or your city opens up, that doesn't mean the customers just suddenly doesn't enjoy the benefits of home delivery.
And so, he thinks the real challenges that we've had this is massive injection of empathy up front on every side of the coin but organizations are not taking the lead during the pandemic to reinvent, to fix their broken things that were broken in the beginning so that their customers don't have a reason to look elsewhere.
Me: So, those are really, really good things that you brought up and I'm happy that you were able to show us where it is that customers have been placing an emphasis on especially since the pandemic as well as where organizations have been putting their emphasis on.
App, Website or Tool that Jason Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business
When asked about online resources that he cannot live without in his business, Jason shared that he’s going to say the Qualtrics Learning Network. Qualtrics is a large software company that provides research solutions in the experience management space.
And whether it's Qualtrics, or someone else, what he’s saying here is, and the reason he says Qualtrics is because there is almost every day new case studies, new thought leadership, new information to help individuals in small businesses or in large enterprises grow their practice, their intentional practice on delivering great customer and employee experiences.
And so, he thinks the best online resource for any entrepreneur out there or leader is one like the Qualtrics Learning Network where you can constantly get fed new thought leadership and new ways of doing things and not because you have to change what you're doing every week, but a healthy curiosity and openness to see what is class leading today will help inform your decisions and ensure that you continue to grow forward.
And he thinks that's the biggest challenge that most companies have, especially small businesses have is that they start with this really great ambition to be better than the store down the road and perhaps at first they are but they fail to continue to evolve and innovate so that they stay competitive and mindful that today their experiences that they're delivering are being judged not based on the last time he had his car serviced, or the last time he went to a bank, it's been judged on the best experience, his last best experience regardless of the industry. So, something like the Qualtrics website where you get exposure to the evolving nature of business globally he thinks is really great.
Books That Have Had the Greatest Impact on Jason
When asked about books that have had the biggest impact, Jason shared he’d already mentioned Tom Peters The Pursuit of Wow!: Every Person’s Guide to Topsy-Turvy Times, it was one of the very first business books he ever read, he thinks everything in that book still plays through today, anything by Tom Peters will certainly get you thinking. But let's move to today, there are three books:
He mentioned those three books because any of them will absolutely help you start to get clarity and start to move forward in creating a better experience for your customers and your employees. But here's the thing, none of those books are about hugging your customers, it's about making really strategic steps to improve the commercial viability of your business, while also differentiating your business through the experiences that you create and deliver.
Advice for Business Owners Who Lack the Constant Motivated Human Capital
Jason shared that the first thing piece of advice that he would give is ask your employees “When was the last time they had experienced achievement in your business?”
“And what's preventing them from having achievement more regularly?”
So, humans, employees, measure their experience and their engagement with us is really impacted across three lenses, did they have success or achievement in their day, everyone wants to go home or in their working day by feeling that they actually were useful, that they achieved something, that it wasn't just the same old, same old.
They of course, want things to not be handed to them on a silver platter, but they don't want things to be difficult for the sake of being difficult.
And the third thing is that they want to feel a human connection with their leadership and with their business.
So, if you ask your team members, “When was the last time you had achievement and tell me why you aren't having achievement more often?”
You will start to unearth the real challenges in your business and if you turn around and start taking action in small ways, and big ways to remove those barriers to achievement, your employees will start to see that you genuinely care, they'll start experiencing more achievement, because you're removing the roadblocks and through that, you'll build engagement and loyalty and motivation.
What Jason is Really Excited About Now!
Jason shared that the number one activity that he’s working on right now is finalizing his manuscript for his next book. So, he has a new book coming out in quarter 1 - 2022 and this book has completely changed in direction at least two or three times as a result of the pandemic.
And he’s really knuckling down to finish it off, because this book will really help organizations and leaders in businesses of all size, take their business to the next level, and be really practical, and filled with great case studies to help organizations in any industry move forward. And so, he can't wait to have it finished but he also can't wait for people to get it in their hands, and importantly, taking action as a result.
Where Can We Find Jason Online
Twitter – @jasonsbradshaw
LinkedIn - Jason S Bradshaw
Instagram - @jasonsbradshaw
Facebook - @jasonsbradshaw
Website – www.jasonsbradshaw.com
Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Jason Uses
When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Jason shared, “The standard that you walk past is the standard that you accept.” We can all get so wrapped up in the busyness of the day, of the crisis, of the moment, but the moment we start walking past people in our organization, or start letting ourselves slip in our standards, and then we start to dilute the overall experience of our customers and employees. So, the standard that you will past as the standard you accept, let's lead by example and set the standard.
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