Josefine Campbell is a founder of Campbell Company, a top leadership consulting firm for multinational companies. Campbell inspires and coaches leaders, teams, and talents in large organisations such as McDonald's, Deloitte, Maersk, Novo Nordisk, and Carlsberg Group.
Her approach combines the practical and the pragmatic. A four-time jiu-jitsu champion, she is particularly interested in developing personal leadership in difficult circumstances, such as is often the case in modern work life.
Questions
• Now Josefine, even though we read a short description about our guests, we always like to give our guests an opportunity to share a little bit about their journey. So, could you share with our listeners a little bit about your journey, how you got from where you were to where you are today?
• A big part of what you do focuses on the power barometer, right. So, can you share with our listeners a little bit about that, and how it is that you are able to implement? What is the power barometer?
• Could you share with us maybe two or three approaches, tactics, tools that you can use to manage energy in work and life?
• Could you also share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business?
• Can you also share with us maybe one or two books that you've read recently? Or even maybe a book that you read a very long time ago, but it has had a very big impact on you?
• Now, can you also share with us Josefine, what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Now, before we wrap our episodes up, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you got derailed or demotivated, this quote kind of helps to get you back on track. Do you have one of those?
Highlights
Josefine’s Journey
Josefine shared that when she was a teenager, she was quadruple national champions in jiu-jitsu, it's Japanese martial arts. And for the last many years, she’s been coaching and developing executives, individually and in groups. And at some point in her practice, she has a background in business practice, she’s ran businesses herself, she’s been in business for plus 25 years, she’s also been teaching business school.
And at some point, quite early on actually, in her endeavour of supporting the executives that she was helping the best possible way, she realized that some of the techniques and practices that she brought with her from the jiu-jitsu practice actually had a huge effect when working with executives in modern work life, because being an executive is quite demanding, especially in modern work life, it takes a lot of energy, it requires for you to stay mentally clear under difficult circumstances, it's quite normal to be under a lot of pressure, just like as when you're in a battle, it's the same thing that happens to people when they feel threatened in a battle, and when they feel threatened at work. The circumstances might look different, but what happens inside people can be quite similar. And have you watched Karate Kid?
Me: I have, yes.
So, you remember the Mr. Miyagi? Wax on, wax off. So, he trains Karate Kid and how to be mentally agile, how to stay ready in a battle, right? So, one thing is he trains the techniques, but he also trains how he is with himself, that's a lot of the movie, remember, that's why he has to do the wax on, the wax off. And it's the same for executives, it takes a lot of personal capacity to do the work they do. So, that's how she came across the methods that she’s written about, and that she’s helped executives put into practice.
What is a Barometer?
Me: In reading a little bit about your story, I noticed a big part of what you do focuses on the power barometer, right. So, can you share with our listeners a little bit about that, and how it is that you are able to implement? What is the power barometer? Let's start there.
Josefine shared that the power barometer is an imaginary tool that anyone can apply personally, alone, individually and in teams at work. So, it's a way of checking in on your personal energy level. And checking in on your personal energy level is important because energy is the fuel of the brain. Your brain uses 20% of your personal energy, it's quite a lot because it's only the size of 3% to 4% and if you're low on energy, your brain doesn't run very well. So, if you aren't aware that, you're not capable of performing in the same way as if you have the self-awareness of where your energy is right now.
And the same thing counts for what happens in teamwork. So, one thing is that each and every one of us should take responsibility for our own personal energy, the personal energy that we bring to the table but in a meeting, everybody should take responsibility for the energy at the meeting. So, tell me, have you ever been in a meeting where someone suddenly took out all the energy of the room?
Me: Yeah, that's happened quite a few times.
And what happens to productivity in such a case? It declines? And engagements? And retention? So, performance? Does people come up with creative, innovative ideas? Do they solve difficult task when the energy is out of the room?
Not so much. So, just being aware of personal energy, start to measure it even if it's a subjective quantification, it brings awareness to energy and everybody's responsibility on the energy level. And that kind of behaviour that would bring out energy of a room suddenly becomes unwanted and for many reasons, that is good.
Tactics and Tools Can Be Used to Manage Energy in Work and Life
Me: So, it's about balancing, it's about energy, could you share with us maybe two or three approaches, tactics, tools that you can use to manage energy in work and life? Because we all have our personal life, but we also have our professional life and how do we balance having energy in both so that either area is not getting diminishing returns?
Josefine stated that if she may, because Yanique says personal and professional life, actually a point, a very important takeaway from her book is that business is personal. So, there's a difference between private and professional life, so, that's isn't opposition, there's things that happens in your weekend, within your family that's private, but and what happens at work, what do you have to do at work, it's professional, but all of it is personal because it's you as a person who goes to work. It's you as a person who is leading, collaborating, communicating, it's you and I, as people who are talking right now on this podcast, and we cannot take the personal aspect out of the equation.
So, you cannot just put away anything but personal. And that's a key point also, in you addressing the question like what can you do to keep a high personal energy level?
And, first of all, and the most important thing is to be aware, to be aware of your own personal energy level. It starts noticing when your energy is high, when it is low, most people would start to care more about it and putting more attention into raising the energy, you will also have more insights about what drains you and try to do less of that, things that gives you energy and it could be work tasks, specific work task you discover, “Oh, I get energy from this type of tasks or this type of meetings, or working with these people, but they also drain me.”
And of course, at the workplace, you cannot always decide who you are meeting with and who you're not. But those relationships which are draining, can you do something about it? This is something you can bring to the table to improve their collaboration. She knows plenty of good examples on how people have addressed bad working relationships and taking them to another level where they can do great work together. There are also situations where you have to avoid, certain collaborations, or certain tasks.
If you're in a team, understand what type of task drains and gives different team members energy. Work division might going to seem more obvious. And then there are the physical aspects, such as getting enough sleep, having a few breaks once in a while, actually just even micro breaks, a few minutes of rest. And rest is not looking at your phone, or just answering email, rest is maybe closing your eyes or leaning backwards on your chair and letting go for a minute. Just these little micro breaks, they can have a huge impact on your energy level.
We're not designed to be productive all the time. The organism, the biological human organism is designed to perform in circles, in waves, the energy, our natural energy will move upwards and downwards in iterations. So, it would be normal that you have some downtime once in a while, at least, but normal, natural, that's the difference, the normal is that people don't have any downtime.
App, Website or Tool that Josefine Absolutely Can’t Live Without in Her Business
When asked about an online resource that she cannot live without in her business, Josefine shared that she will be reluctant to say, if you go on her website, www.josefinecampbell.com, there's a section with freebies, and go there and grab whatever you think can make a difference for you. There are a couple of tools there and you can try them out, you can write me if you have any questions. And that's plug and play, go check it out, there's no software there.
Josefine shared that Microsoft Teams because all her clients use, most of her clients uses Microsoft Teams. Very often that's where they meet and engage.
Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Josefine
When asked about books that have had an impact, Josefine stated that that's a wonderful question. So, what to choose from? There’re so many wonderful books. She really, really loves books. Well, Stephen Covey, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Powerful Lessons in Personal Change, it's an old classic. And she thinks it was the first book on personal leadership that got really big. And it's from the 90s. So, she was pretty young back then. But she got really fascinated with the book and the content of the book, she also started her first business when she was really young. She was 21 when she started her first business.
So, she needed a lot of help, she needed guidance on how to manage herself, and she felt so much wisdom in that book. And she actually thinks it's still valid, it's old, but it still works. So, she often recommends that book, she still does.
And then she thinks Brené Brown’s Dare to Lead: Brave Work. Tough Conversation. Whole Hearts, that's another great book. It's just a few years old and she thinks she took leadership books in another direction, writing a book that is very personal and that has some really nice contributions to how leadership development is being perceived today. She really thinks she made a huge difference. Thank you, Brené Brown.
What Josefine is Really Excited About Now!
When asked about something that she’s really excited about, Josefine shared that there’s so much. So, obviously, there's the book which is just coming out now and she’s excited about sharing that with the world. And she has written the next one too and they're still working on the title and she’s excited about that one too. She’s written another kind of book, she’s been quite creative, and she’s also excited about finishing that one and putting that one out. So, her books are part of her passion. She gets up 5 o'clock in the morning sometimes to write just because she really feels like writing. She loves it.
Where Can We Find Josefine Online
Website – www.josefinecampbell.com
LinkedIn – Josefine Campbell
Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Josefine Uses
When asked about a quote or saying that she tends to revert to, Josefine shared that she have not a quote, but an image. The myth of Sisyphus, it's an old Greek myth. It's this man who is being judged by the Gods to push a rock up a hill. And every time he's up the hill, the rock is falling down, he has to push it up again. Have you ever heard that tale? Can you imagine the picture?
Me: I can imagine the picture.
So, that's that feeling of this never-ending work and that things just keeps on being tough. Just after the Second World War, there was a French philosopher Camus, who elaborated a little bit on that myth. And he pictured Sisyphus working at the stones on the mountain, as he was pushing the rock up the hill and he would see the sun sparkle in some of the stones, and it will be beautiful. And his attention and his energy, his mind, his being would direct towards the beauty of those sparkles. And that would make the rock and himself feel lighter.
And that's what she tries to do, she tries to find just that little spark, those times where it's really dark, and it's tough, and it feels like it's never going to end, though we know it's going to end, there's always light at the end of the tunnel. But sometimes it just doesn't feel like that. Then she tries to find these little sparks of light that beams in and just give a little more energy to get done whatever needs to get done.
Me: All right, perfect. Thank you so much. I guess another way to look at that is the quote, “This too shall pass.” but you've kind of transformed it into an image, which is way more impactful because then it really focuses on what can you really do to navigate that space and recognize that at the end of the day, you will overcome it, it may seem like it's going to last forever, but there is a solution somewhere down the line.
Josefine shared that, “This too shall pass.” it's a really beautiful quote. She likes that one. Another one comes to her mind, it is the quote saying, “Everything is as it's supposed to be.” Kind of give some kind of peace of mind if you don't try to fix anything, or if you don't try to struggle, if you say okay, things are as they're supposed to be, somehow, it's all going to make sense at the end of the day.
Me: It will, the puzzle will all fit. Thank you so much, Josefine, for taking time out of your very busy schedule and hopping on this podcast and sharing all of these great nuggets and insights with us, a little bit about your journey, your new book that's coming out, the importance of preserving your energy and doing things that will lead to a more productive life, a more balanced life. So, I think our listeners definitely would have gained great information, great value from what you shared with us today. So, we just want to express our appreciation for you joining us on this podcast today.
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Links
• The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Powerful Lessons in Personal Change by Stephen Covey
• Dare to Lead: Brave Work. Tough Conversation. Whole Hearts by Brené Brown
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Anatoliy Labinskiy is an entrepreneur, eCommerce expert, salesman, holder of 4-time Two Comma Club awards. His story is a perfect example of life when everything goes against us to become successful. In less than 5 years, he went from a simple waiter to a successful businessman and an owner of an 8 figure winner awards in the ecommerce space.
Anatoliy is the founder of GSM Growth agency that helps ecom entrepreneurs grow to 6-7 figures in revenue. He is included in the Forbes Business Council and featured as one of the Top 10 eCommerce Entrepreneurs helping people during the COVID-19 recession.
Questions
• So, we always like to start off by finding out from our guests a little bit about their journey in your own words. Could you tell us a little bit about how you got to where you are today?
• Now along that journey that took you to where you are today, what are maybe two to three things that you believe has contributed to your success that you believe if other people employ those three skills or competencies, they will achieve success as well?
• Can you also share with us Anatoliy, in your experience, maybe two or three tips that you believe will help to enhance sales and customer service skills as an entrepreneur?
• Could you also share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely cannot live without in your business?
• Could you also share with our listeners what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Now, before we wrap our episodes up, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you will tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or demotivated the quote kind of helps to get you back on track. Do you have one of those?
Highlights
Anatoliy’s Journey
Anatoliy shared that his journey is quite long and he will try to be as short as possible because it's a lot of factors which has brought him where he is today. But basically, back in 2013, he went to UAE Abu Dhabi with no cash and he didn't know English at all, had nothing behind him and just start working there as a like food runner, cleaning dirty plate from the restaurant but dreaming a lot as a simple Ukrainian guy that what he can have in this world when he has seen Abu Dhabi because Abu Dhabi is kind of a rich city in Arabic Emirates. So, it's something what motivates him.
And after several years of failing, finding the better work, the better opportunities in life, he got married during that time. And back in 2017, he was already renting like small master bedroom, not even apartment, small room with his wife. And his wife said to him that she is pregnant. And that day, he really was scared like never before because he has seen her how she's crying. And not because she's happy, because she was terrified, like what's going to happen with them, they don't have their own apartment, rented apartments, they just rent in the room.
And he promised to himself that he will not allow his kid to come in this world in the way where how he’s living and how he grew up with financial troubles. So, he sent his wife back to Ukraine and start like move to even smaller apartment with two bedroom apartment with 7 other people rented just the bed space to save some money and start searching for opportunities and find out what is eCommerce all about. Give it a shot, spend everything what he had, nothing workout, and style start like becoming a zombie. Because I got addicted to the ecommerce and said to himself, 99% of people are failing, because they're quitting, he will never quit, he will never give up and he will make it work and he will become the top one person who will succeed. And this is exactly what happened after several months of fail and lost everything that he had.
In February 2018, he finally got his first $8,000 in 15 days of sales in his Shopify store. And like step by step, October 2018, his first $50,000, November $150,000 and so on, so on. So, for the next couple of years, he was doing coaching of how to succeed in eCommerce. And in 2020, opened his eCommerce agency because there was a lot of requests from his students, “Can you manage ads, not with me, for me?” And he was like, “Wow, that's something interesting!” And they tested it out, one of the stores they made over $6.5 Million in two and a half years. And they were like, “Wow, that's really insane!” And in the same time when they were building all this process, they decided to switch from the mentorship to the agency side. And so, from March 2020, they are operating GSM Growth Agency and now have multiple businesses which is operating with different business partners.
Me: Wow, that's a fulsome story Anatoliy, really, really powerful.
Skills and Competencies Needed to Achieve Success
Me: Now along that journey that took you to where you are today, what are maybe two to three things that you believe has contributed to your success that you believe if other people employ those three skills or competencies, they will achieve success as well?
Anatoliy stated that it's a great question. And it's like good sounds too basic, but it is the fundamental of success. So, first of all, Never Give Up. You can turn left and right if something straight doesn't work. Like for example, he was always teaching his students that okay, if dropshipping eCommerce won't work for you, listen, in this couple of months, you've got insane experience in eCommerce industry, in Shopify, like affirmations of different processes and all marketing, find out just different sub niche in eCommerce and test it out that as well and see that maybe there you’ll get more luck with that.
So, some of the people who are listening to him that they quit on the dropshipping, but one of them actually told their partners, in couple years, come back to him and say that they now operate in email marketing agency successfully. Another person came back to him after one and half year and said, “Anatoliy, I follow your steps and now I'm living in Abu Dhabi. And he was in France before as an immigrant, and now I'm running like, YouTube automation advertising agency.”
And there is several stories like that, one person just go out as a head of marketing department position in his city, just because he was smartest guy in the room on the interview, because he just used that experience, which he got in the couple of months of mentorship. And he just implemented as like life experience to his own needs. And he became like in some local company, marketing expert and got the head of marketing department. So never give up, like adapt and try something else. This is number one thing which he would say for sure.
The second thing, You Have to Know Your Why. If your why is just finances, you just follow the cash, you will fail, you will never build a strong business, never. You will make money here and now most probably, and that's fine. But at the end, you'll stay with nothing because when you don't have your strong why, you won’t to be able to build anything sustainable, and for the long run, you're going to be just going to make quick cash and that's it.
So, think about your why, his why, for example, it was his son, when he found out that his wife is pregnant as she delivered the baby, he still haven't made anything, he lost already everything by that moment when baby has been delivered. But it was his strong why that he has no chance to lose. He have no chances to quit and his why was so strong that it was pushing him forward and it's continued pushing him because he knows that he has higher responsibilities now and kids are growing and you need universities to think about, you need schools to think about, you need to think about your own life, retirement and all that stuff. So, you're basically building your own life under your own rules, it's your why. You have to think of your why which is going to let you wake up earlier, going to sleep later, this is the second thing.
And number three, Don't Be Scared to Hire People, to Build a Team. So many people stay in as a small business owners, small intrapreneurs just because first of all, they don't want to lose the profitability, “Oh my god, if I hire him, I cannot afford it. I will lose like instead of 40% profit, I will be on 20% profit, it's not possible. No, no, no how will I pay my bills.”
They think so small and they look so straight like he’s always saying oh look wider on it. When you start looking wider on the things, you understand by hiring technical person who are going to be able to reduce the busy work from you on the technical stuff, your brain will start functionalities of how to create more business to your company. And will be a CEO of your company, chief executive officer, which is the goal is to bring more businesses to your business.
So, by hiring one more or couple of people, you will lose profitability at the beginning, you will reduce the profitability but it will allow you by having one technical person, one salesperson, it will allow you to bring more businesses and operate more customers, a salesperson will bring you more people, more clients and the technical person will be operating and managing them while you're thinking about new channels for getting more customers, for improving the skills of your employers and so on, by having this kind of team, or by having this kind of three rules in your life to follow, you will be able to grow so fast, this is what he has done.
He’s been a mentor for couple of years, and he reached his ceiling of income and I couldn't grow because he has only 24 hours a day and he’s alone, when he hires one person for testing like agency stuff and after that switch to completely agency model, they made four weeks in the first month of starting agency to compare when he was alone, that's the example. And it's always like that, don't be scared to hire a team, find your why and never give up, these three things, which he would highly recommend to follow, it simple, but it is the true.
Tips to Enhance Sales and Customer Service Skills as an Entrepreneur
Me: Can you also share with us Anatoliy, in your experience, maybe two or three tips that you believe will help to enhance sales and customer service skills as an entrepreneur? What are some of the things that you've done to enhance customer service to deliver that amazing, fantastic experience that your customers want to come back, not just buy from you once, but come back again and again?
Anatoliy stated that it's a great question. Because he will tell you honestly, result in great customer service, your company will not survive as well. Like if you don't have a goal in life, and if you don't have a customer service in company, as it is good customer service. So, by that being said, by working in eCommerce, they are not dealing with people straight away, face to face, they are dealing online and online to make the person calm, it's harder than you are face to face with them on the phone, because they don't see your reactions, they don't see who you are, they don't feel the emotions, they are just angry and you need to deal with that by using the right words and right techniques.
So, he’s really grateful for his past experience being a waiter in back in 2014, 2015, 2016. Like in Dubai, he moved from Abu Dhabi to Dubai, where he got to experience in the top Italian restaurants of Abu Dhabi. And after that top Italian restaurant in Dubai, where he learned a lot of customer service tactics and sales tactics, how to sell someone who is already full, how to sell dessert or coffee, or how to sell $3,000 wine, it is storytelling, and it is a great language, how to produce the right wipes that person would love to buy from you and come back again because they enjoy the service.
So, by that being said, when he started coaching, he got 100% of success in terms of customer service by implementing exactly the same structure. Even if it wasn't work for person, he never got anyone left him with angry face, even if they were not satisfied with something after conversation with him and customer service, which he provided during the journey, they were leaving with smile and wishing him all the best.
So, when he opened the agency, he was training his company, his team, it being him. So, he was sharing with them all the golden nuggets and all his experience, how to speak with their customers for buying from website, clients for using their service in the agency and so on. So, one of the tactics which he learned so now he coming to the answer. It was just a story before.
You're supposed to always introduce yourself as a middleman. What does it mean?
Even if you're CEO of your company, you're proud of it, and you want to show that yeah, I'm a decision maker. I'm the main guy here, I'm the main lady here and I'm going to be making decision if I will give you a discount, refund, will solve your problem or no, then this person will know that it will become even matter because okay, this is the guy who I will screw now, who I will get paid from. So, in our industry, very important, do not allow this to happen. So, that's why.
Usually how it works, he will give you an example of like email marketing when speaking to someone who just purchased from you and they said, “Hey, it's the wrong size” or like, “Hey, I changed my mind, I want blue not red t shirt, and it's already on the way so it's already shipped, it's not possible to be done.” You can provide discount, but not exchange only if they will return the item.
So, basically, how to handle that, are you introduce yourself let's say, “My name is Misty, I'm a customer service specialist in the XYZ store. I'm here to support you with any kind of questions which you have. I have noticed that you send it to us these kinds of requests.” And obviously asking for tracking number, this is one of the parts of their business, but the main point, you introduce yourself not as an authority, you introduce yourself as a customer service specialist, who is not responsible for decision making.
And saying, “Please clarify for me all the details of your problem. And I will do my best to forward that to the top management and ask them to support you in this situation. And again, I'm not making any decisions but I know that your case completely can be managed in somehow and I will be fighting for you because I feel what is going on. I feel your pain. I feel what you're saying.” use these kinds of words, it makes people calm. It makes people feeling that someone is taking care of them.
And it's good to implementable even better in the local shop, in the local business because when you are saying to them, even they know that you're the one they stand face to face to but you're saying and they say, “Oh my god, you paint my car and my car looks disaster. Give my $3,000 back. I want refund.” And you know that it's not possible but maybe you can give some small, we refund that they will be happier but if you will be decision maker in front of them, they will squeeze you. But if you say, “Hey, I completely understand what you're saying, oh my god, really, it's never happened before. But I'm here to help you out. Even you know that I'm the owner of the place. But the thing is that we have a structure. We have an accounting department, we have lawyers, we have agreements which has been signed, I need to figure it out how I can help you out to overtake all those bit of variety of stuff, and making sure that I will be able to provide you the best possible solution. Are you with me with that?”
And this person is feeling like, “Oh my god, he's awesome.” He’s pointed out he’s the owner, but he’s not able to help because there is several bureaucratic steps, which he needs to take over and find out the solution. But he’s more than sure that by his personal approach, he'll find out the best possible option. But even you pointed out that you need to go through the heads and finding out, they know that decision maker somewhere there. And you'll come back in some time if it's locally on the phone or in the mail and saying, “Hey, I just spoke to the management and as I said to you, we have a like non-refundable agreement which just has been signed, but listen, I was talking to them and I was really pushing them hard to make the things different. That's why I made it happen and my pressure allows me to squeeze this deal as much as possible and they agreed to give you a full refund of your request by 20% of the deal which you have made let's say $3,000 painting the car it's like 20% $600 plus you can receive from us XYZ in the future, so all it depends on your business.”
App, Website or Tool that Anatoliy Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business
When asked about an online resource that he cannot live without in his business, Anatoliy shared that because his business is online, they use advertising platforms such as Facebook, TikTok, Google. So, Shopify, he would say in his particular direction, right now, if they will lose Shopify, it will be huge trouble for the company, because they don't have business. All of their customers on Shopify stores. But since he’s living in eCommerce direction, they have a lot of alternatives, which is WooCommerce, Corra, a lot of different alternatives so they'll switch their direction and move there.
But he would say it's will affect them a lot the same, like if Facebook won't work, they'll have Tik Tok, Tik Tok not work, they have Google. So, they have different options of the softwares to exchange in case something is happening, but different tools. But seriously, like if Shopify goes down, it's definitely will hold their business for a while to fix the problem.
What Anatoliy is Really Excited About Now!
Anatoliy shared that he would say that right now, they have two new directions, which is he’s really excited about to grow them. And one is his personal and one is about the team, and he’s excited to bring that to his team as fast as possible and get results because it will be new era for his team of the interesting projects.
So, first one is for the company for the team, it's like IUL telesales mastery direction, which is for the insurance agents who are dealing with the insurance packages for nurses for life insurance. And it's incredible valuable product which is they are teaching them, they have a 20 years plus coach with 23 year plus experienced coaches who are going to be coaching those salespeople how to sell successfully life insurance for a particular niche, like a nurse's niche. But it is useful for nurses because they won't be paying taxes from their retirement when they retire and their insurance will be there.
With these kinds of IUL insurance, they will be able to save all the cost on taxes and avoid pay taxes legally and build their bigger wealth for the retirement process in the future. So, it's like super useful product for the end user and super cool and powerful product for the insurance agents. So, this is something that he’s excited to bring in the mass from the company side as a different project.
And something personal, which is he’s like really cannot sleep and excited every single day. It was back in 2017, eCommerce, the same work he’s now excited about this one for himself. It's a real estate investments in Section 8, so they are buying houses in bad shape, doing full rehab and providing for the Section 8 people like rental agreements with the government and provided for the Section 8 people who are having low income, not able to rent by themselves be signing contracts with the government and providing them the place to live and it's not the cheapest or bad shape houses, they are actually going to be doing full rehab and these kinds of people can live in the normal condition house and build their life in the way how they wish to.
So, it's super useful for the end user who are going to be staying there as a tenant. And it's a great business model since they're going to be dealing with the government and getting the consistent cash flow from the government checks. So, providing the place where to live physical conditions for people. And so, growing business there, it's one of the incredible things which just makes him excited like never before.
Where Can We Find Anatoliy Online
Instagram - @ecombyanatoliy
YouTube – Anatoliy Labinskiy E-com business encyclopedia
Website – www.gsmgrowthagency.com
Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/anatoliylabinskiy/
Ecom Business Stream Podcast - https://linktr.ee/ecombusinessstream
Want to Boost Your Sales? Start Creating Killer Ad Copy Today! Fill out the form and get our $97 eBook for FREE 👉 https://bit.ly/40ZQlg1 🚀
Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Anatoliy Uses
When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Anatoliy shared that he has one, “No matter what's happening in life, we are always able to manage.” He proved that to himself 1000s of times, and whatever was happening in life and what looks like it cannot be managed, it's not possible to fix. They were fixing, they were managed and they will always move forward. Everything is manageable guys. So, if you're in struggle right now in a bad condition, in a bad situation, remember, you always can change that for better. Just start searching for solution, solutions always there.
Me: Thank you so much, Anatoly. So, just want to remind our listeners that you can follow us on Twitter @navigatingCX and feel free to join our Private Facebook group @navigatingthecustomerexperiencecommunity.
Thank you so much, Anatoliy for joining us here today on this podcast, taking time out of your very busy schedule and sharing all of these great insights about your journey, about tips that you've learned. I'm sure that our listeners would have gained great value from what you shared with us and hopefully, there's a few nuggets in there that they can take back and apply in their day to day interactions either on a professional level or on a personal level. So, thank you so much.
Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest
The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience
Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners
Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”
The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.
This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!
This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.
Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!
Leslie Pagel is the Chief Evangelist of Authenticx - a conversation analytics company dedicated to improving the way healthcare companies engage with patients. In this role, she creates awareness across the healthcare industry of more efficient and effective ways for healthcare organizations to deliver on their customer objectives.
With over two decades of working with customer experience teams, Leslie helps clients actualize the voice of the patient to show how these voices prompt meaningful action.
Questions
• We always like to start off by asking our guests to share a little bit about their journey. Could you share with our audience a little bit about how you got to where you are today?
• What has your experience been I would say, let's use maybe the last 12 to 24 months, as it relates to what customers are expecting. You mentioned conversational AI as a way to do the data collection and less reliance on surveys. But what have the customers been saying? What are some of the trends that you've been seeing emerging? What are customers really looking for?
• So, in terms of using conversational AI to be a better listening tool with customers, right? Could you share maybe an example, a real-life example for our listeners, that you've seen the conversational AI work in such an impactful way that it transformed somebody's life or group of people's lives?
• What's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business?
• Could you also share with us one or two books that have had a great impact on you? It could be a book that you read a very long time ago, or even one that you've read recently.
• Can you also share with our listeners, what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you are really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Before we wrap our interviews up, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you will tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or you get off track, it kind of helps to get you back on track. Do you have one of those?
Highlights
Leslie’s Journey
Leslie shared that her journey in customer experience started over 25 years ago before CX in customer experience was even a thing. She spent 20 years working with large global, primarily business to business organizations on a new strategy for creating competitive differentiation. And that strategy was the customer experience. And over the past several decades companies have grown to create a boardroom conversation around customer experience, because it is a very productive and effective differentiation strategy.
What we see over the over the decades is the pace of innovation has continued to accelerate, which makes it really hard for companies to compete on product alone or services alone and no one wants to compete on price, so companies were looking for new ways of differentiating in the market and they turn to customer experience. And so, she spent 20 years, the first 20 years of her career working with companies on their customer experience strategy, which largely was informed from traditional or historical methods of customer listening through large survey programmes, Net Promoter Score programmes, customer satisfaction programmes.
And as technology has evolved and artificial intelligence has become more mainstream, we're seeing a new method that companies are leveraging for listening to their customers, which then informs their customer experience strategy and that's conversational AI. So, when you take a historical look at customer experience listening or measurement, you see that the way that we capture customer input has changed, but what we capture and listen to hasn't, we're still very survey dependent.
And in the last two years, she’s been really focusing on helping business leaders realize a different source of customer insight and that source is not survey data, that source are the conversations that customers are having every day with businesses when they've reached out to ask questions, when they reach out to make purchases, when they reach out to use the website, customers are interacting in moments. And companies have an opportunity to listen into those moments and the technology exists.
So, spent her entire career in customer experience is evolved more into a role today of helping leaders really listen to the moments of customer interactions instead of relying on survey data to keep their finger on the pulse of their customers.
Using Conversational AI for Data Collection – What Are Customers Really Looking For?
Me: So, you have quite a wealth of experience in that area. Now you're primarily in the healthcare space, right?
Leslie stated that she is now, prior to working with Authenticx, she worked across industries, primarily focused on B2B. But then have over the past 5 years been really focused within the healthcare industry, working with payers, providers, being doctors, and pharmaceutical, manufacturers, pharmacies, and in that realm of healthcare.
Me: What has your experience been I would say, let's use maybe the last 12 to 24 months, as it relates to what customers are expecting. You mentioned conversational AI as a way to do the data collection and less reliance on surveys. But what have the customers been saying? What are some of the trends that you've been seeing emerging? What are customers really looking for?
Leslie shared that she would say, and this hasn't changed over the past 12 to 15 months, they've been saying this for decades. But customers, they are saying to the organizations that they do business with that one of the best ways of demonstrating care and concern for the customer. And by the way, in healthcare, caring and concern is essential in that customer experience. But customers have been saying that the best way to show me that you care about me is to listen to me, and to show me that you're listening to me by hearing what I'm saying and taking ownership of it and driving action in the business.
So that's nothing new, that's been there for decades. The other thing that's not unique to healthcare, you can see it in any business is eliminating friction from the journey. But in healthcare, friction in the journey means a lot more, it means delayed care, it means not getting access to the care that you need. So, really looking at pockets where there is friction, and that friction is impacting the patient in their ability to get the care that we need. And that also impacts business and business outcomes as well.
Me: Indeed, because at the end of the day, you're trying to build trust and loyalty and a higher level of retention. And if you're not getting what you're looking for, then they're probably not going to come back, especially if they have options.
Leslie agreed exactly. And there are a lot of options out there, that's kind of why leaders turn to the customer experience to differentiate as companies are innovating fast, your product doesn't stand alone anymore. And so, they are looking towards other ways of building loyalty and the experiences is the way that is where they're turning.
The Impact of Using Conversational IA
Me: So, in terms of using conversational AI to be a better listening tool with customers, right? Could you share maybe an example, a real-life example for our listeners, that you've seen the conversational AI work in such an impactful way that it transformed somebody's life or group of people's lives?
Leslie stated that the example that comes to mind immediately is they are working with a hospital system, and this isn't unique to hospitals across healthcare, there's a lot of focus on social determinants of health because social determinants research has found that social determinants have more of an impact on our health and wellness than healthcare itself. And so, there's a lot of focus across healthcare organizations on understanding social determinants of health and helping patients overcome those.
And so, they do work with a hospital system and one of the questions that they asked them to explore in their conversational data was related to scheduling and why are there no shows? Or why are there reschedules? And one of the things that they found in studying just a single topic of scheduling appointments was that social determinants of health in 14% of those interactions were having an impact on getting to care, getting to the care that they need, they were impacting, rescheduling or missed appointments, as well.
So, this hospital system through that learning, one, has a different appreciation and understanding when someone is calling in to reschedule, that it might not necessarily be because they're not feeling good, it could be because their caregiver didn't show up and they can't get to the appointment, or they're working three jobs and they're not able to get time off.
So, through that insight, they have been working with their frontline staff to one, help in those interactions when someone is calling around a scheduling appointment or rescheduling to offer services that might help that patient in need. But they're also taking their insights that they've learned to the broader community perspective as well.
Me: All right, so that's data driven decisions there for sure that would help them to enhance the journey of the customer.
Leslie agreed, absolutely.
App, Website or Tool that Leslie Absolutely Can’t Live Without in Her Business
When asked about an online resource that she cannot live without in her business, Leslie stated that there's so many tools and resources that she uses every day. She would say for the work that she does at Authenticx, which one of the things that she does is to take the bird's eye view of all of the healthcare landscape and all of the conversations that are coming through their platform and listen more at an industry level and macro level.
And she relies on their own software to enable that perspective. So, that's one of the things that she wouldn't be able to do her job if she didn't have Authenticx because it's allowing her to listen at scale. This year, they'll have over 200 million healthcare conversations coming in through their platform, yes, 200 million.
And there's no way they would be able to understand that data at scale, a human can't do that at scale. And so, she relies personally on their platform to allow herself and their team to do the research that they do to help the healthcare industry at a macro level. So, that's one she would say.
More on like a personal professional side of it, LinkedIn comes to mind. She relies on LinkedIn to help spread the word to help open the eyes of what they're doing and how conversational AI is being leveraged in healthcare to drive outcomes, to drive business outcomes. So, that's another one that's more kind of on a personal professional side that comes to mind as well.
Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Leslie
When asked about books that have had a great impact, Leslie stated that she doesn't have the tattoo but if she were going to get a tattoo of a book, it would be this one it’s called Conscious Capitalism, With a New Preface by the Authors: Liberating the Heroic Spirit of Business. Leslie stated that if she was at a networking event, chances are before they were done talking, she would talk about Conscious Capitalism. Conscious Capitalism is a book, but it is a book that articulates a business strategy, that is a proven business strategy with outcomes that benefit, not just the company in terms of profits, but also benefit humanity and help elevate humanity. And there's some principles in Conscious Capitalism as a business strategy that really resonates with her and that drive how she shows up in the world, both professionally and personally.
And some of those are really that for business, purpose, and profit must co-exist. We can't just focus on driving profit without purpose, and we won't have a company if we don't have profit. But the two of those must coexist, it really is the essence of the responsibility of business is to have a higher purpose, and to generate profit for the company, for the employees, and to be able to invest back in the organization for growth, for customers.
The other thing that really resonates with Conscious Capitalism is more of a shift in mindset from short term gains to long term gains, particularly publicly held companies are very focused on the here and the now and they think of the longer term opportunities and Conscious Capitalism is really more about focusing on the long term vision and outcomes and driving decisions in the here and now based on the vision and where the organization is going in the future. So, that would be her one book, Conscious Capitalism.
What Leslie is Really Excited About Now!
When asked about something she is really excited about, Leslie stated that she would say the thing that she’s really excited about is, she feels like where conversational AI today is it's not known or understood. And so, the thing that she’s really excited about is helping organizations and particularly healthcare organizations understand what conversational AI is, and understand how they can leverage it to drive business outcomes and patient outcomes.
And so, they've got several things coming up that they're working on to help kind of spread the word. One is next, next month, they're going to bring together healthcare leaders from across all verticals, to their headquarters city in Indianapolis, Indiana, and have conversation around best practices for leveraging and listening to the voice of the customer. They're going to have conversation around the challenges that are present within the healthcare industry.
So, she’s really excited about that. One of the things that they know, in their work is that when they really listen to customers, they'll guide the way and they're bringing their clients and other healthcare leaders together for purposes of listening, so they can help them guide the way and they can help them achieve the outcomes that they're looking for their business and for their customers.
Where Can We Find Leslie Online
LinkedIn – Leslie Pagel
Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Leslie Uses
When asked about a quote or saying to she tends to revert to, Leslie stated that she doesn't know who to credit for this quote, but she guesses it's more of a mindset and that mindset is to, “Focus more on others than to focus on yourself.” And it's not to say that focusing on herself isn't important, because it is and that's very intentional in her life. But when she’s in a place of struggle, or kind of not feeling it, just reminding herself of focusing on others more than she focus on yourself is something that really helps her redirect her attention and re-engage in the work that she’s here to do.
Me: All right, perfect. And I think that's even more relevant, that quote that you just shared, especially for the industry that you are in, because when it comes to healthcare, people usually are reaching out to organizations, or hospitals or clinics or doctor's offices because they need help, they're in pain, they're experiencing something that they're uncomfortable with and they need help. So, at that point, it's not about you, it's about them. So, that's a really good quote I think to have and to kind of remind yourself about, especially in the space that you're operating in.
Leslie agreed, exactly.
Me: Well, thank you so much, Leslie, for coming on to our podcast and sharing all of these great insights about the voice of the customer and the importance of listening. I think even as simple as it sounds, and as you mentioned, it's something that customers have want for decades, not just in the last 12 to 24 months, that we really should pay attention to the opportunities that we have, and that the greater tool that exists is conversational AI, and there are ways that we can integrate it into our everyday activities so that we can get a better understanding of what our customers are looking for. And that way we can really deliver that amazing experience that can hopefully help them to return again and again, and bring their friends and family, although we want them all to be healthy and be good and well.
Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest
Links
The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience
Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners
Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC’s of a Fantastic Customer Experience.”
The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty.
This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately!
This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others.
Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!